Episode 88: How to Ask For What You’re Worth with Kelly Charles-Collins

May 19, 2021

In this episode, Kelly and I discuss being a woman in business, why women have challenges men don’t have and how to start making more money by learning to ask for it!

Resources mentioned

Ladies Who Leverage


Book: Conversations Change Things


Ken Krell Pride Event ($2,000 3-Day Event for FREE when You Join the Write Your Besteller Bootcamp)

If you’d like to learn more about virtual events, listen to last week’s podcast with Ken Krell

3 Key Points 

Because women are nurtures, they tend to make better coaches, but want to help everyone so they don’t stick to what they want and what they are worth when asking for money.

If you don’t ask for more money you won’t get it.

Only negotiate on your  top and bottom number, not on what the potential client wants.


[00:52] Ellen: Hi, and welcome to Episode 88 today. My guest is Kelly Charles Collins. Kelly is the CEO of Ladies Who Leverage, which I love that name, where she empowers women to leverage their expertise, resources, and relationships to build their business, brand and badassery, a retired attorney, award-winning TEDx speaker, author, and mentor.

Kelly’s on a mission to create safe spaces for women to create influence and impact and unapologetically own their power, so they can live the life. They’ve always envisioned. And I met Kelly on a Clubhouse call with my friend, Heather and Haven wood. And so, that was a lot of fun and it was really great to meet you. And I’m glad you’re here.

Kelly: It is so good to be here. Thanks, Ellen. And yes, that Clubhouse, boy, it’s connecting a whole lot of people who otherwise would not be connected. It’s an (inaudible).

Ellen: It is. Yeah, it is. I’m amazed when I go on there, how many people there are on there making millions? Yeah. There’s a lot of very high-end people on there. Yeah.

Kelly: Yeah, absolutely. And things you can learn and even from the people who are just starting out. Sometimes, you spend a lot of time in those rooms where the millionaires are, cause obviously, you want to know what they’re doing, but it’s also interesting to hear what other people are doing who are just starting out.

[02:16] Ellen: Yeah, no, there’s interesting people in all different areas, but I was just really struck by that because they say that what, it’s the five people you’re closest to that determines your wealth? And I thought I was hanging out with pretty interesting, successful people, it was like a flood, and every time I’d go into one of those rooms, so, not just a few or, or one leading the pack, but a lot of them.

Kelly: Yeah, absolutely.

Ellen: Yeah. So, why don’t you tell us a little bit about Ladies Who Leveraged and how you got started, and how that came about?

Kelly: Well, Ladies Who Leverage, as you mentioned earlier, is a global community of women. And I started it in March, like right before the pandemic really started to take hold. The idea though started in late 2019, and what I really wanted to do it, wasn’t going to be Ladies Who Leverage. I wanted to start a group like a sister circle for lawyers, for female lawyers.

So, I had practiced law for over twenty years and I realized that in the profession, we really needed a space to be able to just talk to each other, share our experiences, and share how we navigated through or are able to navigate through that very male, white-male-dominated space. Then what was interesting though, is that I put together this whole thing. And when I talk to some female lawyers about it, I got pushback, like they were resistant to the fact of what I was doing. And so, that threw me off, but I wasn’t going to be deterred.

[3:55] And I had to really think about why are you doing this? And the whole point is to empower women. So, it didn’t have to be just lawyers. And that’s how I came up with Ladies Who Leveraged. Leverage is one of my favorite words and so, I was just trying to think of what is it that I want women to be able to do. And I wanted women to be able to have a space where they could ask for what they want, ask for what they need, and that they didn’t have to jump through the hoops of traditional “networking”, where we’ve been trained to get into small talk and do all of those things for however long period of time before you can ask somebody or really engage somebody around what it is that you want to help move your business forward.

I just wanted them to come in, “What do you need? What do you want? How can we support you? Let’s get moving.” And in the process, we’ll get to know each other. So that’s really how Ladies Who Leverage came about and it has grown to be something more than I could ever have imagined.

[04:56] Ellen: Yeah. I was immediately attracted to it; it’s a great title, and anybody who’s been listening to me for any length of time knows I love, love, love alliterations because they always work really well. And it’s interesting because so many women that I know their businesses are about women, and women-driven mine is not, but I certainly, I do have more women clients, I have had more women, clients, over the years than men, but it’s so interesting, but the men tend to be more well, first of all, they’ve got more money, right? Because men just generally do have more money, and the culture is different, and they’re more comfortable spending the money, and they’re more comfortable…well, I won’t say all of them because now that I’ve been hanging out with more, with more higher-end people, there are a lot of women that I see now that they do get the value of education and they are willing to spend.

[05:58] Ellen: But over the years for what I offer, I have always had more men than women step up to the high-end offers. And so, I was doing a… well, I’ve done many masterminds. And when I was doing the masterminds, I noticed that women had issues that men didn’t have. And so, when you and I started talking, I thought this was an important conversation to have because there are differences, and there are also different things that happen for women than happen for men just by virtue of being women. So yeah.

So, when you and I started talking, and we had a conversation about this off-camera as we were getting to know each other, but I wanted to bring it on. I said, camera or audio, whatever. However, you’re however, you’re…

Kelly:  Bringing it out to the world.

Ellen: However, you’re consuming this. Yeah,

[06:47] Kelly: Yeah. I think that’s so true, Ellen, because even in business, right. So, there are so many women who own businesses. And if we look at what’s happened in the pandemic, how women business owners have been so impacted or even women in careers have been disproportionately impacted by the pandemic. And we do, I was saying, “Ask for what you want, ask for what you need.”

Men have no problem with doing that. Right? They have no problem with doing away with the niceties and not following the rules around those

Ellen: Exactly

Kelly: That’s what we’ve been taught to do. And so, we’re going to act like a lady, be polite, and okay, that’s what we’re supposed to do. We’re not supposed to just go in and say, “Hey, I’m Kelly, Charles Collins, this is what I do, would love to know a little bit about you to see if there’s some way that we can work together.” No, we’re taught, go ask about their dog, their cat and their family, their cat and family and whatever, and then maybe two months from now after you’ve nurtured everything right?

Men don’t worry about all of that stuff. Right. And so, I think it’s an important lesson for us to learn to be able to just, just speak up, right?

Ellen: Yeah.

Kelly:  Just really be out there.

[08:02] Ellen: Well, one of the problems for me, and it’s so interesting that you’re an attorney because my dad was an attorney. My uncle was an attorney and then a judge, my grandfather was a judge. And I have cousins who are attorneys. And my dad used to, I remember this is like the seventies, right? The 1970’s. But my dad had a real problem with women lawyers. He didn’t like women lawyers, right? And women judges.

And,  yet he wanted me to be an attorney, which was a very weird dynamic going on there. Right? A dichotomy. But the thing that he said to me that was the most disempowering thing ever was, he said, “I don’t care if you ever make a nickel, I want just be nice.” That was what my father actually said to me. Oh. And as I grew and  I’m like, “Are you kidding me?”

[08:50] Ellen: And my dad adored me. Like I know he had no clue, how that landed, but that was just insane. And then the other side of it was thinking that I should go to law school and become a lawyer. Well, every day you’re telling me how much you can stand on women lawyers. Also, it does not make me want to be a lawyer aside from the fact that just dealing with people’s problems all the time. He was a medical malpractice and a P.I. attorney. And we would hear the most horrid stories all the time about terrible things that happened to people. And I didn’t want to live my life in that energy.

[09:32] Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a hard profession to be in it, almost regardless of the area of practice. If you’re doing a lot of transactional stuff, it might not be. But I think they also have their burdens, but being a lawyer is a very hard space to be in. And as a woman, I know in the last few years of my practice, I experienced some of the worst bias, outright sexism, racism that I experienced in the twenty-four years that I practiced.

And for me, I’ve always spoken up for myself, and I could stand up for myself, but even still in those spaces, just having to have to do that, right?

Ellen: Right.

Kelly: And having to have to do it because I know that there are women who could not for fear of losing their job or whatever other retaliation that they would face, where I didn’t care. Right.? At that point, I was just like, “I don’t care.” It’s stressful.

And it’s disheartening cause we were in 2021, and we’re still, on this mission of trying to find equality within that profession. And I don’t know that that’s ever going to happen. They say there’s what? 5% of lawyers are women and 2% are women of color. So, imagine. Right? And there’s however many hundreds of thousands of lawyers probably in the United States. So,

[11:08] Ellen: Well, I think it’s good the more that we have public figures who are women, I think that helps. But you also told me something that I thought was really interesting because it’s something I’ve heard over and over and over again from people who are successful. And that was, you said, what were you told as a kid? You were told…

Kelly: Oh, that I could be and do anything that I like.

Ellen: Yeah. Yeah. I was not told that, I was not told that. The culture in my house was, especially for women, was like, my mother was a 50’s housewife, and she hung her a degree from USC over the kitchen sink. And that was her protest that she was so brilliant and that was as far as she got was our kitchen sink. Right?

But I also think that she had a lot of fear too about going out in the world. Like it’s easier to blame the world and what’s going on out there than to take the blame yourself and say, “I’m going to do something that,” because there are other people of her generation that did do other things, you know?

[12:10] Kelly: Yeah. I was raised by a strong woman around strong women. The women in my family are highly educated. I grew up in Jamaica until I was nine years old and women ran the households. Right? They ran the households, but they also worked outside of the house. So, for us, like when I grew up in Jamaica, I had we called them “helpers” would what you call in United States and “maid” or “nanny”. Right.

So, we grew up, but so my mother was at work. My father was at work and we were raised by our helper. So, I’ve always known my mother to be outside of the home. And I’ve just always been whatever I wanted to do, whatever I wanted to accomplish, I was never told, “No, you can’t do that. Or “You’re a girl, so, you can’t.” That was just never part of my upbringing. And so, as I’ve gone through life and things have happened, I just know well whatever is next,  then you just go do, do whatever is next.

[13:17] Ellen: Yeah, mine was more women were in like the traditional, the teachers, social workers, and the men were the professionals. And I just find this whole thing fascinating between women who were brought up by strong women and women who, like me, were brought up by women who were frustrated, overeducated, and under-performing. And the only saving grace for me was I looked at my mom, I looked at my dad and I said, “My mom is unhappy and angry and frustrated. And my dad’s the one who goes out in the world and he’s a kick, so, I think I’d rather be more like my dad.”

And because he also, even though he was a lawyer, he was always an entrepreneur. He always had a side thing going. At one point, it was disposable (tooth) brushes for hospitals. And then it was fruit stands and just different things, you know? And he had the desire to be a millionaire, even though he never… he was on paper, but he never got it mentally that he was, and that he could have that lifestyle if he had changed a few things, but he just didn’t get it, you know? But umm…

[14:23] Kelly: My mom was a teacher. My godmother is a social worker. My aunts were nurses.

Ellen: That’s what I mean.

Kelly: Yeah.

Ellen: But yeah,

Kelly:  I always knew…I never dreamt of being a lawyer that was never…my grandfather, my mom’s dad was a lawyer, but it was, that was never anything that I wanted to do when I was little. I wanted to be a bank lady or a truck driver.

I don’t know where the truck driver came from. But I didn’t decide to go to law school until I was twenty-one with a one-year-old.

Ellen: Mmm.

Kelly: Almost one-year-old so, yeah.

[15:06] Ellen: Oh, well I was going to say something and I forgot what it was about that. Oh, I was going to say, so I’m fascinated by the conversation of people who were told they could do anything versus people who were not told that or who were put down, and yet there are people who go through really terrible things and they still rise to the top, but they’re also way more that are brought up that way that struggle. And I know people look at me as being successful, but I have had more than my share of struggle because of what I was told as a kid.

But it also, it’s great when you see people and I have a friend who’s on Facebook and I love her because she’s very upfront about her life is a mess. And it doesn’t stop her from making a lot of money, you know? And that was really important for me because I’ve been through a lot of messes and it was saying, “Well, if you can do that, I can do that too.”

[16:04] Kelly: Yeah. It’s really about a decision. Right? We get to decide, we get to decide whether we allow what people have placed upon us or the things that we have been through in life, we get to decide whether we continue to allow those things to take us one way or another. We have that decision-making power, no matter what has happened to us in life, we do have that decision-making power unless, something neurologically or somewhere where we can’t make decisions.

But setting that aside, we really do. Right? We really do. We can just like, we can get up in the morning and decide that we’re just going to say. “Whoa is me. I’ve had a horrible life that nothing good is going to come from this.” We can get up in the morning and say, “Whoa is me? I had a horrible life. I’m not going to let this continue. I am going to do something different.” So, it really is about choosing, right? And the power and the power to choose.

[17:07] Ellen: Yeah. I think that, once you decide that there, even if you decide that there is something that could be better, I think what’s really important is surrounding yourself with those people. I have found that has been huge for me. And it’s also been big for when, to go back to what I was saying before about doing masterminds, I found that the women didn’t charge as much for their services as the men.

And when we would ask them, because I had a partner in some of the masterminds, Betsy Hall, and we would ask them, “Well, why don’t you raise your prices?” Or, “What’s stopping you from doing that?” And it was like they just had a hard time accepting that they were worth it. And the idea of always putting other first.

[17:50] Kelly: First, yeah. I still do that. I think that is something for me. And when you’re talking about pricing and what you’re doing with your business, it is one of the things that I, I am a social worker at heart. And so, I do think about, “But what if they can’t afford it? And I really want to help everybody, and I just want to do this, and I just want to do that.” And, we do it sometimes to our own detriment. Right?

But it is something that we have to move through. One of the things that I have to always fall back on is just knowing my worth and knowing my value and really standing in my power to be able to say, “No, this is what it is.” But yes, that is something. I think, for women, the nurturing spirit that we have really…

[18:42] Ellen: It’s good and it’s bad. It’s good.

Kelly: Right, right.

Ellen: It makes us better coaches. Right. It makes us better coaches. We’re more empathetic. But yeah, right,

Kelly: It costs us our bank account.

Ellen: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a hard lesson for me too, was the letting go of the clients for a long time that just like that I shouldn’t work with, like, it was just too stressful or it was just too hard, but I’ll tell you with one thing that was really telling.

I had a client that I worked with and I walked, he had a partner that they were writing the book together and I was walking them through the process and editing while they were writing, going back and forth. And then we did all the publishing: editing formatting, book covers all that. And then we did a number-one bestseller launch, and it took about six months.

[19:34]: And I was charging $7,500 at the time, and he said to me, “This is way too cheap, you need to double your prices.” And the next day I doubled my prices. And my next client paid me, well, he didn’t pay me $15,000,  he paid me $13,000 cause he had his own web team, which I swore after doing that, I would never do that again. It has to be my team because they never listened to you, right? But the point was, it was shocking to me that somebody would pay twice as much. Right.

Kelly:  Because you asked for it.

[20:05] Ellen: Because I asked for it. Yeah.

Kelly: I always say, a lot of times people ask me about being in the speaking business because I’m also a professional speaker. And when I tell them what I charge to speak for the amount of the time that I speak for, and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, how can you charge that much?”

And I said, “Listen, if you can’t say it, they won’t pay it. Period.”

Ellen:  Love that. Yeah. It’s true.

Kelly: If you don’t believe it, if you, if you say it’s $7,500 and then they’re like, “Okay,” cause that’s what makes you feel comfortable, but you could get just as comfortable to say, “It’s $15,000,

Ellen: Right. Well, one of the tricks that I had to do with myself, and this is a tip for everybody listening is I just had to say,  the next time I’d be talking to somebody, I just had to really like get in my body and just say what that price is.

Kelly: Yep and shut up.

Ellen: Right? And right. And let myself be uncomfortable with how big a number it is. Right? And do it anyway and just be uncomfortable. But like my face wouldn’t show it. I’m not going to cringe or…

[21:14] Kelly: You can’t but inside you’re like, ”Ahh”.

Ellen:  But inside you’re like, “Oh my God.” Yeah, yeah.

Kelly: I remember going from, so when I started speaking, so this was two years ago really as a professional speaker I started out at $7,500 and that was a little bit scary. Right? And I was thinking to myself, “What are you scared of? You’ve been practicing law for twenty-something years.” Like, “You probably should be making more than that.”

So, then I went to $10,000. I remember one day I was talking to a woman; she wanted to hire me to do a webinar. And I called my coach and I said, “You got to tell me what I’m supposed to charge.” Right? “She wants me to do a webinar and it’s ninety minutes. And she was like, it’s $10,000. I’m like, “No, no, no, I’m doing a webinar.” She goes, “Yeah.

Same thing doesn’t matter. That’s your rate.”

And I was like, “Oh my God, no.” I said it has to be something else. So, she said, “Okay, can you say $7,500 and be okay?” And I was like, “Yeah, I can say that.” Right? And then from there on, I just said, “You know what? Just say the number, it is what it is.” Right “and shut up,” right. “Say the number and shut up.” Because in that silence, they have to fill the silence.

Ellen: Right.

Kelly: Otherwise you’re going to fill it. And if you fill it…

Ellen: You blow it.

Kelly: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Or,  maybe like you say, “Well, it’s $10,000, but if you…, no, no, no, there’s no but,  it is that,  right? And then you can negotiate, right? You can negotiate off of that number. And I tell people like when you’re negotiating, their budget means nothing. Right? You’re not negotiating off their budget, you’re negotiating on your numbers. What is your number?

[22:54] Ellen: Right. But here’s the thing too. If you charge from where you’re coming from, right? Like, let’s say you’re making a hundred thousand dollars and so, $10,000 is 10% of that, right? So, that seems like a lot. But if you realize that there are people making $500,000 or a million dollars a year, that $10,000 is nothing. What if it was $20,000 or $30,000 or even $50,000 right?

Kelly:  Now my rate’s $20,000. And I just say it.

Ellen: Don’t come from your perspective, come from their perspective. Right? Like what’s the value of it? And what they can afford and how much are they willing to pay for that? But whenever I would come from my perspective is when I would get in trouble, especially when I was struggling, which “Oh, I don’t want to charge them that much. Oh, well, they can’t afford it.”

Or sometimes, like somebody came to me, this is a true story. Somebody came to me and actually was asking me for money. Right? Was asking me to loan the money and telling me they needed it, and they couldn’t get it or whatever. And I was telling him like ten ways they could make that money in a minute. It wasn’t that much money, actually. And then, a few weeks later I see, they’re giving away all this money for something I’m like, “What? And you’re asking me to give you money? I’m like, “I don’t get it.”

[24:19] Kelly: Yeah. Because you think about it, I-phones, the newest car, the newest bag, whatever. They’ll figure out how to go get that stuff. Right? So, same thing when they come to you, just figure out how to go get it. I’m a trained mediator and so, I understand negotiations, like I’m a master at negotiating. I understand where the power lies in numbers and using those numbers.

And so, for me, like, I don’t care what the other side’s number is. I have a number, I have a top and a bottom. So, we’re negotiating between those two numbers. We’re not negotiating their numbers. I don’t care. Their number has to fit in that top of my top and bottom. And if it doesn’t, then there’s nothing for us to talk about. But I think that’s where the power lies. Right? And understanding, understanding what your walkaway is.

[25:09] Ellen: Yes. So, with Ladies that Leverage, what are some of the big lessons or things that you see people going through or tips that you have to help them?

Kelly: Yeah. So, I think in Ladies Who Leveraged the biggest thing that I think the women have gotten out of it is the power of community and the power of association. And just like you were saying, being around people who are doing the things that you aspire to do, or people that you aspire to “be”, and being able to be in a safe space where you can finally ask the questions that in other spaces you may feel like “If I say this I’m going to sound dumb, or people are gonna think that I don’t have any sense, or I don’t have any business acumen.”

And so, really being able to have that community that is pushing you forward from wherever you are. We meet people where they are and help to propel them forward. And so, the women have just done amazing things.

[26:09] Kelly: We’ve had people end up writing books that they’ve been thinking about for years and over now in this last year and they’ve written a book, people who have been, had six figure months who hadn’t had those before or very close to that, people who have started new lines in their business and doing all kinds of other things.

So, what it has done and what the women talk about all the time is the inspiration that they get from watching the other women do things. And just knowing that I can do that too, whatever my that is. Right? It’s not about competition. It’s not about comparison. But it’s about seeing the potential. Right? And really being able to stand in your greatness and really think, “Yes, I can do that. I can own my power and I can be that person.”

Ellen: Well, let me ask you a question. When people come into your group, do you ask them what their biggest challenges I do? Yeah, because I do too. Okay. So, what’s their biggest challenge.

[27:05] Kelly: It’s all over the place. So, a lot of them, cause the women in the group are full-time entrepreneurs, women with a side hustle or women in transition. So, it might be that we have aspiring entrepreneurs have no idea where to start, just know that they want to do something, but just don’t even know where to begin. You have those women who have already started their business, but perhaps don’t know how to really build or grow their business.

And then you have the ones who have been in business and now are on the scale end of it. Right? “How do I scale?” And we have everything almost in between. And so, it might be “How do I gain more clients? How do I market, how do I build an offer? How do I know what rate to charge? I’m a speaker. How do I know what rates to charge?”

“How do I know what to speak about? How do I find clients” in whatever type of industry you’re in? So, it’s really interesting because it really does run the gamut. And it’s fascinating because I think the questions and the things that they tell me about their challenges are probably things that they’ve had for a while, that they don’t have a space that they could say that that’s the challenge. So, it is all women, men are not allowed to all women, no men are not allowed in, in terms of the group. I do bring men in as experts because one of the things that we do monthly is have for the women who are investors.

So, Ladies Who Leverage is two-fold. One is a community of everyone who is in Facebook, which is free. And then we also have what are called “Ladies Who Leverage Investors”, which is the paid part of our membership. And one of the benefits of that is that we have expert round table. So, every month experts on different topics come in and train the women in those areas. So, we bring men in for that. But yeah, generally, no.

[28:56] Ellen: Where is the group of people? If women wanted to join the group, how can they join your group?

Kelly: So, if they want to join the group, they can go to lwlinvestor.com.

Ellen: Okay. Lwlinvestor.com. Okay. So, you said writing books. So, you wrote a book,

Kelly: I’ve written a book of like a regular book. I’ve written an ebook and I have a mini-book.

Ellen: Oh, okay. So, how do you use your books?

Kelly: Mostly as a calling card or like a big business card. When I wrote my first book, I just did it because I said I wanted to do most things in life. I do, because I just say, “Oh, I could do that.” I wrote my first book because I had been speaking about workplace investigations and had been doing them as a lawyer for over twenty-something years. And there were just questions people kept asking.

And so, I just turned my PowerPoint into a book. I just decided that I was going to turn my presentation into a book and I never thought about it in terms of trying to get it to be a bestseller or I didn’t even really, I read stuff and looked at stuff, but I really didn’t know how to market the book or do any of that type of stuff with the book. So, associations will purchase it every now and then; I get my royalty checks cause it’s on Amazon. Somebody will buy it, but I never have really clicked.

[30:19] Ellen: Well, you speak a lot. Right?

Kelly: I do.

Ellen: You speak a lot.

Kelly: I don’t speak as much about that topic anymore.

Ellen: Okay. Yeah, because speaking is a really great way to promote book sales, but also like you just said associations and when you’re giving a talk and one of the things that one of the women suggested on one of these calls, that I thought was really great was she was saying like, if they couldn’t afford her speaker fee, but sometimes they would buy books and they gave it to people. And I thought, yeah, that’s a really,

[30:48] Kelly: That happened the other day. So, I actually did speak about workplace investigations the other day, which was the first time that I’ve done it in a while. And that’s what they did. It was an association and they couldn’t pay my speaker fee, but they bought my books.

Ellen: So, we’re getting to the end of this conversation. So, the question I want to ask you though, is what tips do you have for people? Like if they’re not in that space yet where they’re making the dreams come true. And it’s because of all the things we’ve talked about today on this call, what would you say is the thing they need to do first?

Kelly: I think the thing you need to do first is to build your squad. Right?

Ellen: Okay.

Kelly: So, find the people, whether it’s coaches are a must, I think having a coach is a must and the right coach. So just not any coach, but you need to have the right coach and you may have to have multiple coaches, which I do because they each are teaching me different things and are helping me to do different things. But that’s part of building your squad, get like we have Ladies Who Leverage, the community of women who around you, who will lift you up, who will support you, but who will also hold you accountable and correct you if you need to be corrected. So that’s what I would say. That is the foundation is to have those people around you because they will then help you to find the resources, the other relationships, the training, the expert, whatever it is that you need to help you to move forward.

[32:18] Ellen: Nice. Okay. Yeah. The one last thing I want to say going back, I wish I had said it at the time, but I didn’t was when you were talking about not doing anything to market the book when people launch it’s called a book launch, but the truth is you can do a promotion anytime. So really the thing about whether you should do a promotion or not really has to do with, is that what you’re speaking about? Is that where your business is going? if it’s not, no, go onto something else, but if it is, then you can always do that. Yeah.

Kelly: Yeah. And that’s what I’m doing with my last book is that’s the mini book and that’s what I’m going to focus on now in terms of my books, because the other one, I don’t really want to speak about that topic too much anymore. And so, this one, which is about it’s called Conversations, Change Things, the perfect framework for courageous conversations, which is absolutely needed everywhere right now is the one that I’m going to focus on.

And like you said, doing promotions. I had just had another client who purchased almost a thousand books for their little swag bags, that’s it, I’m going to be speaking for them, but they also purchased the books too for their swag bag.

[33:31] Ellen: That’s so awesome. Yeah. I’m so happy for you Congratulations! Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, how can people reach you?  We said they can go to the Facebook group. Is that the best place or is there somewhere else?

Kelly: The best place? If you want to know about Ladies Who Leverage, I would go to lwlinvestor.com and it’ll take you where you need to go. As far as the Facebook group for my speaking, it would be Kellycharlescollins.com.

Ellen: Okay. Well, thank you so much. I love this conversation. I think it’s really important and I do think women need safe spaces and yeah, I could talk for hours on the subject, but yeah, let’s just say that I went into entrepreneurship because that was where I felt I didn’t have to deal with a lot of that nonsense. Yeah. So, I think this is a much better path for women, especially, than trying to be corporate or do things where you’ve got bosses and men telling you what to do. I don’t take direction very well.

[34:39]: I don’t like people telling me what to do. Right. Okay. So next is Books Open Doors Insights. Well, I’ve already given you some tips today about on book marketing and launches and promotions and different things. But one of the things that Kelly and I were talking about before we got on the call was having a book designed, a book cover. And one of the things that I learned actually from Jeff Walker and I was doing it anyway, I just didn’t understand the strategy behind it basically.

But when you’re honing in on creating a book cover, then what you want to do is if you get it down to two, three, four, when you’re getting down to the ones you really like the most is run it by your audience and get them to engage. And at the beginning, while you’re doing that because you want to know which one they want to buy.

But aside from that, what he said, that it helps you to get your audience engaged in the process. And that when they’re engaged in the process, they are actually more apt to buy the book. So, that is the tip. And then Kelly mentioned that she had used a site called PickFu, PickFu P I C K F U to ask. So, there you go.

So, when you’re working on a book cover, if you want to get that feedback, go to PickFu and make sure you get it so that your audience is engaged and more in the process and following you, so that when it’s ready, they’re excited and they want to buy it. Okay? So that’s it for today to get the transcripts go to https:booksbusinessabundance.com/podcast

Also, the next, Write your Bestseller in 7 Days Bootcamp is coming up, July 12 through 20th, and Ken Krell made an amazing offer to give his Pride event How to Produce Ridiculously Irresistible Digital Events that goes for $1,997 for free when you register for my bootcamp.

Ken’s next event is coming up later this week, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. So, don’t wait if you want to attend, or you can attend at a later date, but I’m going to be at this one myself, so I’ll be doing a follow-up call for my attendees after the event, which is another $297 value.

Now, Ken mentioned that you’re going to get a swag bag for $49 in the continental United States, but I will be refunding it after the bootcamp. So, it really is free for you to attend. And if you’re out of the country, I will still refund the $49, but you will have to cover anything over that.

[37:24]: So, if you want to write your life-changing book, but you think you’re too busy or you don’t know how to get started, or if you’ve been writing books, but want to write them faster and easier and you’re looking for a proven step-by-step solution that works, you’ll want to take advantage of the early bird for the, Write your Bestseller in 7 Days Bootcamp and save $500 plus attend Ken’s event and get the extra mastermind with me after the event if you go to this one, plus two additional fast action bonuses, a guaranteed spot on this podcast, where I’ll interview you about your book. That’s a $750 value. This professional interview will not only get you in front of my (30,000+) audience of speakers, coaches, authors, and heart-centered entrepreneurs but it can also be used to get you more podcast appearances and speaking gigs, which actually makes it a lot more valuable.

[38:18]: And one-on-one coaching call with me personally, that’s a $300 value. It’s a great combination because once you have the book, you can use Ken’s course to fill your higher-end programs. So, let’s do it.

Register now for the Write your Bestseller in 7 Days Bootcamp, July 12th through the 20th. The training goes for $997. And if you want the complete publishing package with it, there are only a limited number of spots. That’s a $4,500 package, which includes editing formatting book covers and publishing everything you need to get your book done completely. And actually, at the $4,500 level, you are getting the training for free.  And it will not be offered again at this price.

So, if you want it, get in now go to www.writeyourbestsellerbootcamp.com. That’s writeyourbestsellerbootcamp.com for details to register because it is going to rock.

Till next time. Bye-Bye,


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About the Author

Ellen Violette

Ellen is an 3X award-winning book, including being named one of the Top 20 Book Coaches of 2022 by Coach Foundation. She's also a multiple #1 bestselling author, a 3-time eLit award winner, podcast host, and a Grammy-nominated songwriter. She has been helping entrepreneurs increase their credibility and expert status, become #1 bestselling authors, and make a bigger impact in the world since 2004. Her mission is to make the world a better place one author and one book at a time!



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