Episode 71: How to Market with Integrity and Attract High-End Clients with Lisa Manyon

November 16, 2020

In this episode, Lisa Manyon shares how to marketing with integrity including how to write copy from a positive perspective rather than from rubbing the prospect’s pain points and why it works better as well as the power of being in collaborative books to grow your business.

Resources mentioned

Website: WriteonCreative.com


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3 Key Points

Marketing and sales are all about building relationships so meet people where they are with empathy and understanding,

Know who your target market is, some are motivated by pain and others by passion and who do you want to work with?

Emotional manipulation is known to actually perpetuate buyer’s remorse, increased return rates, and also charge backs.


Lisa offers custom coaching, consulting and copywriting, and is available to teach, train and transform your audience with interactive business breakthrough boutique. So, welcome to the call, Lisa.

Lisa: Thanks so much, Ellen. I’m so delighted to be here with you today.

Ellen: Well, we always have a good time when we app, so

Lisa: Yes, we do.

[01:45] Ellen: So, why don’t you tell people a little bit about your story? How did you become this person that you are today?

Lisa: Oh my gosh. That’s a big question. So, I have been playing with words and marketing and advertising for as long as I can remember, even back to when I was about four or five, watching cartoons, I would critique commercials when they would come on. So, that’s going to date me, but it’s true. And so, I’ve been successfully running Write On Creative for sixteen years now. And my background is in marketing, advertising, copywriting and publicity.

So, I’ve worked for radio stations, advertising agencies, also managed nonprofit organizations and kind of ping-ponged for many years between social service, and marketing, and advertising work. And then when I started Write On Creative in 2003, the kind of the rest is kind of history. I’ve been doing my own thing and really giving people a voice to turn their ideas into something that matters ever since then.

[02:47] Ellen: I’m always envious of people who are like doing what they do at four or five years old. I’m a late bloomer. I didn’t know what I was doing.

Lisa: I always knew I wanted to write. Fast forward from when I’m four or five to fourth grade and my best friend and I started the first-ever school newspaper on a mimeograph machine. You might remember what those are. Not many people will, but again, dating myself a bit. But yeah, so I’ve always loved communicating, and doing it effective.

Ellen: Yeah, met too.

Lisa:  And doing it in a way that gets results and makes sense.

[03:23] Ellen: Yeah. it’s the same for me, except that I still didn’t know. Like, even though I did it, I didn’t know that was my path. You know what I mean? Cause I started writing poetry in junior high school and keeping journals and that was the beginning for me. And I remember as a kid too, my mom read to me a lot, and that’s an interesting thing cause she read to my brother too, and it didn’t rub off on him, but it rubbed off on me, so…

[03:49] Lisa: Interesting. Yeah. I wrote poetry too. As soon as I could, I started writing really bad poetry. journaled a lot, always was very, very drawn to that kind of.

Ellen: Yeah. I think that’s where a lot of writers actually start.

Lisa: Yeah.

Ellen:  So, one of the things that I love about you is that you are very compassionate and that you have a different sort of a take on how to approach your copywriting and marketing. And so, I wanted to talk about that today.

[04:22]Lisa: Well sure. Of course, I love talking about this because it seems like, I honestly can’t believe that someone didn’t create this framework before I did, because it seems so intuitive and natural and like, of course, this is the way things should be done.

So, when I started my business in 2003, I actually had a non-compete with the agency that I resigned from. So, I went into the online marketing arena and started studying with a lot of the direct-response copywriters and marketing experts out there. And what I found is everyone was teaching the standard problem, agitate, and solve approach. And that did not feel good to me at all. I sat back really quietly kind of watching this unfold for a long time. And what bothered me most was that there was this focus on pain points, and then agitating those pain points to get people into a heightened emotional frenzy so, then you can make the sale.

[5:17] And what I really realized in my heart of hearts and soul is you don’t have to do that. It’s not necessary to drag people into the depths of despair because look, we’re smart and intelligent, we’re all in a lot of pain, the world is continually showing us things that disappoint us, so there’s no need to manipulate people by poking at pain points and trying to take advantage of emotions basically.

And of course, always, we do need to know what the problem is. So, I’ll be really clear about that. And what I did with my framework that I really started doing it intuitively Ellen and I was doing it for gosh, probably, at least, a decade before I even named it. And so, I finally named it over a decade ago.

[6:03] I think now I was featured on the cover of Aspire Magazine, and the publisher said, “We really need you to explain your process.” And I thought, “Hmm, that’s a great question.” Cause I just do it intuitively, right. You know, I know that I lead people to their values. I know all of these things that I do, but it was in writing that article that I really named the framework. And that’s the Challenge, Solution and Invitation Framework, and how that differs from the problem agitate and solve framework is that in the challenge piece, we do need to know what the problem is. That’s clear if we’re going to solve something, we have to know what it is.

Ellen: Right.

[6:38] Lisa: But what we do is we have to know the challenge. And so, we meet people where they are with empathy and understanding, so we can then roll into the solution piece and the solution is simple. You’ve got to be it, right?

And so, in that solution piece of the framework, you share how you can make a transformation or make people’s lives better. You paint a picture of possibility with passion points instead of poking at pain points. And of course, you make sure that you sprinkle in some testimonials or stories or case studies that illustrate why you’re the natural choice.

And then, by the time that you get to the third step, which is the invitation, and you’ve got to do it, which is key, and you’ve got to do it-many people forget to make the ask.

Ellen: Right.

[7:21] Lisa: Then you’ve already set people up with the information they need to make an informed decision. And it makes it really simple. And I like to tell people, it’s like, listen, marketing and sales are all about building relationships. And if you feel like you have to manipulate someone into doing business with you, it might work, but it’s not going to create long-term business sustainability. And in fact, the pain-point marketing approach using that emotional manipulation is known to actually perpetuate buyer’s remorse, increased return rates, and also chargebacks. So that’s something to think about like, do you want to be doing business that is good business, that creates these long-term relationships and make sure that people are truly happy and satisfied and getting what they need,  or are you going to use gimmicky tactics and techniques that may make the sale, but don’t create any type of loyalty whatsoever.

[08:17] Ellen: Ah, interesting. I’m thinking of the first thing that came to my mind was I actually might not totally agree with that. I think there are two groups of people. It’s interesting cause I’ve gone through Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula, and he’s got people in there that go year after year after year and keep doing it and getting better at it. And he’s got other people where it’s their first time. And when I think of also when… I’ll get back to that… but when I think about when I started and I didn’t really know who my target market was, and I was doing, basically what you’re saying not to do, right? Pain-point marketing. And you know, and I start it in 2004, o that is what everybody was teaching.

[9:06]: But at that point, that was the first of all I knew how to do, but secondly, it worked, I’ve made hundreds of thousands of dollars doing that. But then, what I found was when I needed to change my target market, that’s when I found that didn’t really work very well, because I think that high achievers who are looking to strive, and do good, and are coming from that place of abundance, aren’t looking for something with the pain points and all that, right? They are coming from passion.

Whereas the people that are struggling a lot of times, they’re in pain, they’re in a lot of pain, and they are and can be manipulated more with the negative marketing. So, to me, I see that like two different groups.

Lisa: Yeah.

Ellen:  I’m not saying that it shouldn’t work that way with everybody, but it would be nice if it did, but I think that some of those people that are in really a lot of pain are motivated more by the struggle and people who are happy and already achieving are more open to that. And I think that if you know who your market is, maybe that could have an effect on how you do it too. I don’t know.

[10:19] Lisa: It could have an effect on it. And also, your outcome and intent have a big piece, right? So, you were able to use it successfully, even back in the day I used it because nobody was teaching anything different.

Ellen: Right.

Lisa: And so, I realized, yeah, this is icky and it’s not working for me. But the difference between you and I and many others is that we follow through with solid trainings and information.

Ellen: Yes.

Lisa:  And deliver upon our promises. So, another element of often many people who use the problem, magic tape, solve approach, and the pain point is they’re doing it solely to make the sale so they can make the sale, but they’re not following through.

Ellen: So, it’s transactional.

Lisa: Yes. And it also makes it a super huge, energetic disconnect. But you brought up a really great point about the people who respond and the people who don’t respond.

[11:08]: And when I first started talking about passion points and the challenge solution and invitation framework, there was a gentleman who weighed in on one of my Facebook posts, and he was just not happy about what I was teaching. And he said, listen, eighty percent studies show that 80% of the population will move away from pain rather than towards passion. And I said, that’s great, give me the 20%!

Ellen: Right, right.

Lisa: There’s more than enough business to go around. So, the people that this resonates with, I’m meant to play with the people that it, it bothers. I’m not, right? It’s like, okay, that’s cool. Go find somebody else and play with them. I’m all right with that. I’m not here to serve everyone. I’m here to serve the chosen people who get it, who want to a big impact, who are really, really committed to infusing their values into everything that they do, and they want to build relationships and create a long-term sustainable business.

[12:03] Ellen: Right, right. You absolutely have to know your target market. And the best thing about that is, is ask them, you know, people who try to guess what their market wants, there’s just no reason to do that. It’s so much easier when you just ask them.

Lisa: It’s true. And you know, it’s funny because we have different types, different ways, of identifying our ideal clients, our avatars,  our personas, whatever you want to call them. There’re so many different words for it, and I kind of break the rules there too. We have people who will focus just on a specific, industry niche and we have people who we’ll focus on a specialty niche, and I’m really a specialty niche. And what that means is my ideal clients are not going to be put into a box per se. They’re not in a specific industry. Many of them won’t even be reading the same magazines or consuming the same media, which are some of the things that we often look at when we’re identifying the psychographic, demographic information.

Ellen: Oh, interesting.

[13:04] Lisa: Right? So, to make it super simple for me, my peeps are mission-driven entrepreneurs and business owners, sometimes even corporations like benefit corporations, B Corp that are doing really great work in the world. They have only two things in common. They’re totally turned off by pain point marketing. And they’re excited because they see there’s a different way to do it. And here I am to help. And they want to make a really big difference in the world, a really positive impact.

So, if I were to gather all of my clients and toss them into a room together, they’d probably be looking at each other like what are we doing here? Because I’m talking about working with corporate executives, to lightworkers, to healers, to authors, to coaches, to speakers, to owners of big brick and mortar businesses. And what they have in common is they want a solid marketing message, they want to focus on passion points, and they want to make the world a better place period. So, I try to break a lot of the rules, but it works for me.

[14:01] Ellen: Well, that’s really the most important thing, isn’t it? Right? That works for you. And you know, this is one of the things that I’m such a proponent of, which is finding your own way. And, it’s like people want to be able to plug into a system, and just have it work, and be told what to do. And you can do that with tactics, and even to a degree with strategies, but ultimately, I think all of us, we’re all, we’re all different. We all have our own set of skills, our own set of passions, the way we think like not everybody thinks the same way. and I think ultimately, I’ve had so many different coaches and just about, I would say, every to actually not, just about every time, there was something that I’ll take from them, but there something that I won’t take from them. Right?

[14:55] Lisa: You’re smart and right?

Ellen: Well, because it’s not for me, you know, right? It could be great for somebody else, but I know me, and I know either I’m not going to do that or that doesn’t feel right for me, or that’s not my path, or sometimes intuition. And I would think with what you do is there, there’s some intuition in it too.

[15:22] Lisa: Oh, there’s a huge amount of intuition. It’s interesting because  I naturally have the gift of vision and seeing people and projects and businesses at their fullest potential before people are even ready to realize it, which is very interesting. So yeah, I absolutely tap into my intuition on a regular basis. I’m told that I can see into the soul of businesses, which is often very true. And I help people write that vision into existence, which is fun.

[15:56] Ellen: Do you help them actually get in touch more with their intuition or is that sort of…?

[16:02] Lisa: Not really, no, that’s such a personal thing.  I honestly have no idea how someone could teach that this, I just been highly intuitive my whole life. I’m sure there are people that are experts in that arena.

Ellen: Yeah.

Lisa: But what I do lead them to is I’m a big proponent of breaking the trance, challenging the status quo, and engaging critical thinking. So, many of the tactics that have been taught out there, we need to unlearn to come home to ourselves, to come home to our values, to really make sure that our values are aligned with our personal mission statement and our business mission statement to create that congruency in all of our marketing messages, so we can truly step into our story and own it and share authentically with who we’re meant to attract, because the biggest energetic disconnect that I see across the board is when people either have identified their values but haven’t revisited them for quite some time or they, some people have never even done a values exercise, which blows my mind, but the biggest disconnect that I see is when your personal values are not aligned with what you’re doing in business.

So oftentimes, there’ll be coaches that will teach you to go after the low hanging fruit or to just create a package because it can make a lot of money really fast. That’s great if you need to make cash, I get it. We’ve all been there.

Ellen: Right.

Lisa: And at the same time, it’s typically not going to create that long-term sustainability that I like to talk about because your heart’s not in it; you’re doing it to make a buck.

[17:30] Ellen: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah., I get really excited about that because I learned that the hard way. It was like when I started my business, I did what they told me to do. And it worked for quite a while, and then it didn’t work anymore. And it was like, “Uh-oh,  this is what I know, and this is what I was told to do, but what do you do when you’re not passionate about it anymore? You know, what do you do? These people who are just totally motivated by money like what I see is some people will say, “Well, when I started I was motivated by money because I needed to make money.” But then, you reach a point where you have enough money and then you go, “Okay, well now I want to help more people,” or “I want to make a bigger impact; you move on to other higher goals.

[18:17]: But I teach that all the time. I just wrote an article on it because what I see in my work, in my boot camp, I started to say, I used to call it a workshop, but it really is a boot camp. And what I teach in my book- writing boot camp is that when I see people kind of get stuck in the middle, it’s because they’re not passionate about it. They pick something because they thought it was a lucrative thing that they can make money with. Exactly what you’re saying. And then, they start writing it and they’re not really that interested in the topic. And so now they’re like, “Well, I don’t know if I want to finish, and I’m bored.”  Or, “I’m not motivated. How come I’m not motivated?” Like you’re not motivated because you don’t really love what you’re doing. And you didn’t connect to what you said is your value system and your passion.

[19:06] Lisa: Right. And if somebody just said, Hey, you need to write a book because it’s going to help you make money. And as we know, yes, they can be a stepping stone, but a book on its own is not necessarily a million-dollar maker. Right?

Ellen: Right.

Lisa:  You’ve learned to leverage it and do what you need to do.

[19:22] Ellen: Right. But what I’ll tell people is like, if they reached that, point, like early in the process, I’ll say them dump it and pick another topic, you know, but now get in touch with what is your real passion. Cause I do an exercise right at the beginning to get them in touch with that. It’s just, sometimes people ignore it.

Lisa: Right.

Ellen: But if they’ve gone over halfway, then I’ll just say, “Well, just finish it because now you’re learning the process, and then you’ll use it over and over. And don’t worry about this one, this one’s like a training, what is it like, you know, a tricycle; it’s your training wheels.

Lisa: Right.

Ellen: But yeah, long-term not having the passion to me, it just doesn’t work unless you’re one of these people that is just motivated by money forever, and not a lot of people are wired that way I’ve found…the majority.

[20:13] Lisa: I think it’s really important to find your passion because once you do that there are two things that will never go out of style, your message and your strategy. So, as long as you’re super clear about your message and who you want to get that out to, and whatever your product or service might be, because you can turn any product and service into multiple revenue streams, there’s a million different ways to make money with one specific idea- you can pivot.

As long as you’re clear with your message and your strategy, it doesn’t matter what happens with technology, with any of that. You can get that message out there in a new way, course correct your strategy a little bit, and still be on track. And many people say to me, “Wow, Lisa, you’ve been doing what you do for a really long time.” Write On Creative is sixteen now,  I’ve got a teenager.

Ellen: Right. Mine is sixteen too.

Lisa: Yeah. How fun is that?

Ellen: Yeah.

Lisa: And I said, “Well, I have, and it’s because what I teach is evergreen solid information. If teaching that is never going to go out of style.” And now with the communication framework that I pioneered, it actually helps improve all communications. I have people using this in their relationship conversations.

Ellen: Oh nice!

Lisa: It’s great! You know, it’s really beautiful. So, it’s something that’s naturally evolving on its own to be even more than I ever even imagined. It would be.

[21:29] Ellen: Well, you know, that’s true for writing a book too; that doesn’t change either. So, we’re very blessed that way, because yeah, there are things like these people that do Internet marketing and they’ve got to come out with a new program every six months. I’m like,” Oh my God, shoot me.”

[21:40] Lisa: Well, exactly. I’ve been offering my Copywriting Action Plan forever, and I update it, absolutely. And I refresh it, absolutely. But I’m not going to get rid of it. And I had someone tell me once, “Well, you really need to just start talking about something new and different.” I’m like, “Actually, no I don’t,” because I’m here to serve people in a very specific way. I’m here to give them a voice, to turn their ideas into something that matters, and to help create long-term, sustainable business success by reverse engineering their most powerful solutions into profitable revenue streams.” Boom, super simple. And I can do that forever. And I don’t get bored because I get to work with just a myriad of fascinating, magical people doing great work in the world.

[22:24] Ellen: Well, that’s another thing I want to bring up because some people that works for like for you;  for me, that didn’t work for me. So, it was like what I found for me, and again, this goes back to doing, you know, you have to honor your own personality. Right? And you’re just the way you’re wired. And so, for me, like I’ve done my boot camp… I’ve done it thirty times in the last sixteen years. So, almost twice a year. And about the, it didn’t quite work out that way, but yeah, thirty times. And so, I had reached a point where I was just burnt out on it. I just didn’t want to do it anymore.

And then, Kindle came in and I started doing #1 bestsellers. And then, I got known for that. And I was doing only that. And then, I was like, “Well, I want to teach writing too.” You know? And so, what I found for me, like, I’ll go in cycles, like maybe I’ll do something for a while, and then I don’t do that anymore. And I didn’t know that I would come back to it, but now I am coming back to it cause now I do want to, I want to teach it again, but now I’m excited about it again.

[23:22] Lisa: Well, it’s related, right? It’s not like you’re going off on bright, shiny objects.

[23:26] Ellen: Right, exactly.  It’s like no, that’s what you were saying. It’s like, “No, my lane is my lane.” It does keep expanding as I learn more and more about how to become a better marketer; you can always improve.

Lisa: Absolutely.

Ellen: But, but yeah, the basics of what I teach also, yeah. are the basics, but it’s doing it in different ways, whether I’m doing a boot camp or I’m doing one-on-ones or whether I’m doing more podcasting that month or Facebook live, or whatever it is, or speaking, or live events, I don’t know whatever, but yeah, it’s in a lane, but I have to keep myself interested.

[24:05] Lisa: Absolutely.

Ellen:  And some people don’t have to do that. Some people can do this. I have one mentor; he says the same thing over and over. I met him right in the beginning, like 2004. He says the same thing he’s been saying since the beginning. But for him that works and hearing that repetition over and over and over and over has definitely gotten into my brain cells, you know?

Lisa: Absolutely.

Ellen: And yeah, I hate doing that. I hate saying the same thing. People need to hear things more than once. But again, it’s finding out kind of what works for you, you know?

[24:39] Lisa: Well, it is. And the cool thing is you can stay consistent with your message, but share it in a bunch of different ways. You hit on that when you talked about, maybe you’re teaching your boot camp, or maybe you’re speaking, or maybe you’re doing a training, or maybe you’re doing this. And interestingly enough, each time, it will change a little bit with the audience, depending on what they’re needing, what they want to hear, but it’s still all very solid. And we’re able to craft new revenue streams around presenting it in different ways, the same message, but just in a different way.

[25:11] Ellen: So, when you say challenge solution, how has challenge different from pain points?

Lisa: Yeah. So, the challenge, as I mentioned earlier, when I went through the whole Challenge, Solution,  Invitation framework, the challenge is you just need to know it. So, you need to know where people are, but you meet them with empathy and understanding, you don’t.

Ellen: Oh, I see, you did say that. Okay.

Lisa: You don’t poke at those pain points; it’s not necessary,  because it’s like, you may touch on it like, “Oh gosh, okay. I understand that you’re not really big in the pain point marketing. I get that. That’s a bummer, but guess what? My solution and I’m going to be it, is I teach in an absolutely different way. I teach passion points. So, let’s look at that.  And what has that done? It’s helped remove energetic blocks for people who have been stuck and were able to share their magic because they felt like they had to do this weird pinpoint manipulation.

[25:57] And then, they were able to share their magic and make more money. It’s helped people to… my favorite, first of all, is just the removal of those energetic blocks, that just delights me. People have been stuck and they can finally start sharing and that’s great.

It’s helped people just by changing, flipping their script, and changing a headline to increase opt-ins by 50% within a couple of weeks. You know, there’s so many things and so, in your solution piece, you want to share those kinds of stories and those kinds of antidotes and results. And whether it’s a testimonial or it’s a stat, whatever it might be because facts tell, stories sell. So, you want to  weave some of that into your solution piece, and you want to paint a picture of possibility.

[26:40] Like my possibility, when you’re focusing on passion points, is that you can meet people exactly where they are, you can elevate them by painting a picture of what is possible moving forward and get even better results. And so that we have all of that into your solution piece. So, you’re really being it. You’re it. And then, when it comes to that final piece, the invitation, do it, you ask, would you like to take the next step?

And you share what you do, you know, in your case it would be possibly your boot camp, or it could be something else that you’re offering at that time. For me, it could be going through one of my self-study courses, either my copywriting course or my Marketing with Integrity course, or let’s talk about what you might need one-on-one. So, there are so many possibilities and you know within that conversation and within that framework of you’re having a conversation where to go.

[27:30] And the other thing that’s really exciting about this is you can apply the Challenge, Solution, Invitation framework to every single revenue stream that you have. And it will vary per revenue stream, because you may not have the same ideal clients or prime prospects for every single product, or program, or service, or whatever it is that you’re doing. And so, you’ll want to modify and adjust that, a good example is when I do my five-page web copy and strategy packages, I have a little bit of a different approach. That’s basically people are in a place where they need help with their strategy and their content for their site. And they need to get really clear.

The solution is yes, that’s something that I offer, and I’ve helped people look at their revenue streams, and they’ve mapped out million-dollar plans based on me just looking and saying, “This is fantastic, but you have all of these different revenue streams mapped out. We’re going to write content for all of them. What if somebody buys one of everything in a day, can you handle that?”

And they step back and go, “Oh no, that’s great, what you need to do is go play the numbers game. Look at those revenue streams really carefully, whittle them down to what you really want to do, how much you really want to work, look at this strategically-this is, again about reverse-engineering the most powerful solutions into profitable revenue streams. And then from there, we can write into those revenue streams to get you better results. Right?

[28:52] And I’m excited because just recently I did this very process with some clients we’ll be launching their site coming up pretty soon and they came back and they were blown away because they said, “Thank you for making us do the numbers game, because guess what? We now have a million-dollar plan that we can easily do by working half the time that we’re already working…”

Ellen: Oh, that’s great.

Lisa: Yeah. So, there’s just so many ways that you can present and use the framework to elevate your message and connect with exactly who you’re meant to connect with.

Ellen: Yeah. And I think another thing people really need to look at is do you really want a million-dollar business?

[29:27] Lisa: Exactly. And some people don’t. And that’s why, when I tell you like my favorite piece of all of this, the Challenge, Solution, Invitation Framework, and passion points is that it removes energetic blocks for people who have been stuck. And this kind of goes back to more of our mission-based, heart-centered business owners who have always known and felt like, “Ooh, I don’t want to do this pain point thing that doesn’t feel right to me” and have struggled and thought, “Well, I can’t really share my magic because I have to market in these ways that don’t align with my values.”  And then I say, “Oh, that’s not even true. Here’s what you can do.” And they’re like, “Oh my gosh, thank you.” And they’re able to,

[30:05] Ellen: That’s the other thing that I love about you though. I want to talk more about that too, just integrity in marketing.

Lisa: Yes. Yes. Well, gosh, it’s been, honestly, I think it’s been a decade since I created my How to Create Marketing Messages with Integrity, Attract your Ideal Clients with your Authentic Voice Program. And it’s so funny because when I launched that, suddenly, everyone started throwing the word integrity around and you heard it everywhere. And I was like, “Oh gosh, now it’s just going to be a buzz word.“ But the reality is in order to create marketing messages with integrity, you’ve got to be super clear on your values. They’ve got to be infused into your personal mission statement, your vision, your business mission, statement, your story, the story that you’re telling people, right? Walk your talk. And then, you’ve got to have a strategy baked into all of that as well. And of course, part of that is the Challenge Solution Invitation Framework.

[30:59] So, it’s important to, you know, your word is your honor, and that’s where we get down to integrity. And we’re playing with words here, and you and I both play with words.

Ellen: Right.

Lisa: We’re helping people powerfully position themselves, create whole platforms where their voice is going to be heard and seen in super-powerful ways. And so, you’ve got to absolutely honor your word: it’s gold. And if you don’t, then you’re out of integrity, people are going to find out. You can write the best book in the world, but if you’re not following through, or you can have the best website in the world and the people click and they don’t get what they want it, you’re not going to do very well. So, that integrity piece, and being aligned with delivering on the promises that you have out there and doing exactly what you say you’re going to do. And if you can’t,  tell people you can’t,

[31:50] Ellen: Yeah, that’s a biggie. Yeah, not that long ago, I was hired to do something that I had never done before. It was Publishizer and we did a crowdfunding to get a publishing deal for one of my clients. I had never done that, but I knew I had the chops to do whatever needed to be done. But what I ended up doing for that project was nothing like what I was hired to do, because that was what I was hired to do wasn’t what ended up being needed in order to get done what we needed to get done.

What I learned from that process is that every list is different and you can have the best strategy and with some target markets it’s just not going to work. So, we had to flexible and completely change the strategy. And then, and you only had thirty days to do it in. And so, to do that I had to actually get into the sales part of it and help her sell stuff, and that was not what I was hired to do. So anyway, that was that, but…

Lisa: That’s a great example of going above and beyond.

[33:04] Ellen: Right, but I have that mindset. It’s like, if I tell somebody I’m going to do this, I’m going to get this done one way or another, period. And, I don’t take a lot of one-on-one clients at a time ever. And that’s exactly the reason because I know, and we talked about this a little bit before we got on the call, you and I have both had health challenges over the years and that we have to be careful to not overextend ourselves.

[33:30] Lisa: Absolutely. And it’s really, I think, a huge service to our clients to limit the amount of time that we’re expending on clients, you know, per client each time, I don’t take a lot of one-on-one clients at once, either. I have a select few that are on high-level retainer for coaching, consulting and content development.

Ellen: Yeah.

Lisa: And then, a lot of the other projects, then we split those in. If somebody wants to do a five-page web copy and strategy package, we can do that. And that’s why I’m also building out more courses. I’ve got the two courses available now, but I will be building out more in the future, because we’ve got to get our message out and leverage ourselves, and one of the best ones is creating courses.

[34:16] Ellen: Exactly. Well, speaking of leveraging, you’ve been in a lot of books.

Lisa: Yes.

Ellen: So, let’s talk about that for a minute.

Lisa: Okay. This is kind of fun. So, the first book that I was ever published in, and I wrote a chapter in this book, and this is way back in the day. Well, wait a minute. Yeah, no. Okay. Think about this. One was, I’m looking at my bookshelf cause they’re right here, Emerging Trends Every Online Entrepreneur Must Know. This was many, many years ago and I wrote a chapter with predictions about what I thought changing in the marketing space, and it all came true, and it all pointed towards marketing with integrity, which is really cool.

And then, the first number-one international bestseller that I wrote a chapter for was actually Success Rituals, 2.0. And I wrote a chapter in there about how to succeed personally, professionally and spiritually, which I think is fascinating given my health journey and everything that I went on after that. I’m featured in The Well-Fed Writer book as an advocate study.

[35:21] Ellen: Oh, I saw that one when I was looking through your book (on Amazon) but it didn’t say by you, and so, then I got confused.

[35:26] Lisa: No, it wasn’t by me.

Ellen: Got it, okay.

Lisa: So, I do have an author page on Amazon.

Ellen: Right.

Lisa:  And this is actually kind of a positioning technique, but because if you’re mentioned in a book or you’ve written a chapter in a book, you can list that on your author page.  And so basically, it’s giving play to the authors who wrote the book and included me, which I’m happy to do, but also it shows…

Ellen: I’m in some books. And I don’t think I’ve done that. I have to go do that. Okay.

[35:44] Lisa: It’s a fun little exercise. So, those are in there, let’s see Engage  Wonder Woman, How Western Women Will Save the World. Fresh Start Success talks a little bit about my reinvention story and resigning from the ad agency and starting Write On Creative. My Big Idea Book, all of those. And then, the most recent one, which is really near and dear to me, because it talks about my healing with love journey when I successfully healed cancer with surgery and all-natural remedies. And I wrote a chapter in The Silver Lining of Cancer. And that is a really cool book as well. And so, yeah. I’m working on my own book and I know, I keep saying that.

Ellen: Oh, yay!

Lisa: Ellen’s like, “When are you going to get that done?” But naturally, I’m going to flip the script as I like to do, and I’m going to do a course first, and then the book.

Ellen: I’ve done that.

[36:46]: Yeah. So that just seems to be a really good way to get, get things rolling and moving for me because I was right in the middle of writing my Marketing with Integrity book when the whole health thing came up. And so, that kind of got put on hold a little bit, and I had to focus on healing and all of that. So yeah, I’m really honored to be featured in all of those books. You know, some of my philosophies are just featured because people love the Challenge, Solution, Invitation Framework, some I’ve written chapters in, and some of them just featured case studies.

[37:16] Ellen: How do you feel that they’ve helped you in your career or do you feel they’ve helped you?

37:2 Lisa: Absolutely. And I probably don’t leverage them enough, Ellen, honestly. You know, I did do the author page, so I’ve got them all up there, but it’s a credibility builder. When people see that and they go, “Oh, wow, that’s really amazing. Where’s your book because I’d like to read it?”  And I’m like, “I’m getting there…”

Ellen: Well, you know where to find me.

Lisa:  But yeah, The Silver Lining of Cancer book,  my friend Tracey Ehman is the one that put that together. And we both served on the leadership team for the Women’s Speakers Association for many years. I’ve taken a break from that.

Ellen: Oh, right. I’ve been in that at times.

[37:52] Lisa: Yeah, yeah. So, she said, “ You have to be in this book.” And so, I didn’t argue with her.; I was. And what was really cool is earlier this year, I did a book reading at our local bookstore because it’s featured at a local bookstore. And this is really just mostly for fun for me. Do I sell copies? Yes. But quite frankly, it’s really about just helping motivate people to own their health. But it was kind of standing room only at the reading, which was super cool.

And then, there were such great questions after the Q and A, after I did the reading of my chapter was incredible, and it helped so many people and so well that didn’t necessarily, you know, I did books, so yes, I made some money. But the biggest thing again, I get more excited about the transformation than anything. Clearly, I’m not motivated by the almighty dollar that much. I am happy to make it and spend it, don’t get me wrong. But what I really, really, what really lights me up is helping others.

And so, you know, the big we look at my overarching platforms, I’ve got my message to teach healing with love after the whole cancer journey. And then, I’ve got my Marketing with Integrity through my Write On Creative business, and they all tie in hand to hand actually was really interesting.

[39:07] Ellen: What did they do? And I’ll tell you something. I was just talking to somebody; I can’t divulge what their story was, but I was in a mastermind call and she had a story, and it was something that I knew I could help her with, you know? And so, I said, “Do you want to talk after the call?” And so, she said, “Yes.” And we started talking on the call. And then,  as we were talking on the call, it turned out she was going through a health crisis that I could help her with. And that wasn’t why I connected with her at all. But it’s oftentimes, just amazing that when you’re impressed to reach out to somebody, it’s not always, the most important thing isn’t even always what you thought it was if that makes sense.

[39:50] Lisa: Total sense. I had one of my Write On Creative community members who spend subscribing to me forever, reach out to me and say, “Oh my gosh, you use the same principles that you use in business to heal yourself.” I’m like, “Yeah, I did.” It’s really all about love when you get down to it. You know, if we’re not loving what we’re doing, if we’re not infusing more love into the world…

Ellen: That’s what I was telling her. She needed to, that was how we got started talking was you need to do what you want to do, that you are passionate about,  that you’re not doing. Yeah, yeah,

[40:20] Lisa:  Yeah. See right on the same page as usual. That’s so great.

Ellen: Passion. To me, it always goes back to the passion.

Lisa:  It really does.

Ellen: Because passion gives you the energy and the energy makes you want to get up in the morning and without it…

Lisa: Yeah.

Ellen: It’s not easy. Okay. Well, this is awesome. Thank you so much. So, how can people reach you?

[40:43] Lisa: Basically, just zip over to my website,writeoncreative.com. that’s the best way to reach me. And yeah. I’d love to have you as a part of the community. There’re all kinds of free goodies on my blog. I actually have a really cool section of my blog, the Ask Lisa section,  where if you have a question, just submit it and I’ll get right back to you personally, or I’ll create a blog post about it because it could help a lot of other people too.

[41:07] Ellen: Okay. Well, I will list the books as many of them as I can. The link to the Amazon page.

Ellen: Yeah. So, those will be in the transcript. And then,  also you’ve got the Marketing Integrity course. We’re going to give them that link. And that link is http://Ellenlikes.com/marketingintegrity.

Lisa: Nice.

Ellen: Okay. So, thank you so much for coming on. I can’t believe it took us this long to do it.

[41:39] Lisa: Thank you for having me. I love playing with you.

Ellen: Yes, me too. I loved playing with you. So, that’s it for today to get the transcript go to https://booksopendoors.com/podcast. You’re also welcome to join our Facebook group. I recently consolidated the two groups. So that is always on the bottom of the page, on the transcript and on the podcast page as well.

And I hope you’ll join because you’ll get first notice of all new podcasts,  support, tips, trainings, networking, a lot of engagement, marketing opportunities every week, and more. So,  that link again is on the page https://booksopendoors.com/podcast.

And while you’re on the podcast page, be sure to grab your copy of Book Planning Secrets, A simple 4-Step Guide to Writing a Bestseller. If you’d like to write your own books, or if you’ve been writing but you want to write them faster and easier, that’s what you need to get. So, till next time, Bye-bye.


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About the Author

Ellen Violette

Ellen is an 3X award-winning book, including being named one of the Top 20 Book Coaches of 2022 by Coach Foundation. She's also a multiple #1 bestselling author, a 3-time eLit award winner, podcast host, and a Grammy-nominated songwriter. She has been helping entrepreneurs increase their credibility and expert status, become #1 bestselling authors, and make a bigger impact in the world since 2004. Her mission is to make the world a better place one author and one book at a time!



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