In this episode, Heather Ann Havenwood shares how she got a publishing deal after her book was originally rejected twice by the same publisher, what stops others from getting what they want, what it takes to win in business and the importance of showing up and taking risks to get what you want.

 Resources mentioned

Book: Sexy Boss

Podcast: Like a Boss
heatherhavenwood.com/iTunes

3 Key Points

Go for what you want and don’t give up just because you get rejected.

Don’t get so attached to your book or creative project that you aren’t willing to make changes to get in the game.

You have to pay to play one way or another.

Transcript 

[00:51]: Ellen: Hi, and welcome to Episode 67. Today my guest is Heather Ann Havenwood. Heather is an award-winning, world-class speaker, award-winning media mogul, she’s been crowned, Miss Texas Elite 2020 Woman of Achievement; she’s the creator and founder of Influence Growth Formula, a top Amazon bookseller from her book, Sexy Boss, (I love that name,) a syndicated radio host of Like  a Boss Insights, and influencers named by Huntington Post as top female entrepreneur to watch, and founder of female business association known as “chief sexy boss”. And I don’t usually do a long introduction, but Heather is so impressive, I was really blown away. So, let me just tell you that in 2006, she started developed and grew in online information marketing publishing company from zero to a million dollars in sales in less than twelve months. In 2010, she started and grew an online newsletter publishing company from zero to a million on online sales without a product.

[01:58]: And in 2015, she did it again from zero and grew a weight-loss supplement company to 1.5 million in eighteen months. This is just unbelievable. And what she does is she brands, businesses, influencers on best strategies dominant to dominate their industries. And she’s also a top authority on podcast marketing, influencer messaging and high-ticket sales closing, leveraging LinkedIn.

So welcome to the call, Heather.

Heather:  Thanks for having me, when people did my full bio, which is rare, it is kind of strange. I don’t know who the heck you’re talking about.

Ellen: I know. Yeah, I’m the same way, but that is very impressively.

Heather: I really honor that, appreciate that. I appreciate that very much.

Ellen: And also, I’ve known you a long time and I didn’t know any of this.

Heather:  Well, that’s because we, as females have a hard time talking about how freaking badass we are.

Ellen: That’s true.

Heather: Men can be like, “I did that!”  (really loud) . You’re like (very softly) “Yeah, we know, we get it,” but women don’t sit there. You know, I have it out there.

Ellen: Yeah.

[03:00] Heather : Even with the Stevie that I just won Stevie 2020, the Twenty most innovative woman of the year. I was putting it out there a lot, just because I want to leverage that word. I’m very honored. I’m very excited about it. But even then, most people are just a lot of congratulations, but a lot, I think a lot of people are like, “How dare you talk about yourself.”  I’m like, I won this award. It was really awesome.” I’ve had to train myself to allow myself to “Look what I won!”

[03:24] Ellen: I totally get it. I’m the same way to this day with my Grammy nomination and it’s been twenty-five  years.

Heather: Yeah. Like, I didn’t know you had a Grammy until like last week when we talked,

Ellen: Yeah.

Heather: I didn’t even know no idea. I was like, “Oh, she’s a Grammy. That’s fascinating.”

[03:39] Ellen: No, I don’t have a Grammy, I wish I did. No. I have the nomination. I have the plaque.

Heather: Yeah, the nomination. That’s the fact that you nominate that’s huge.

Ellen: No, it is, it is.

Heather:  It’s massive. So, I acknowledge you for that.

[03:51] Ellen: Thank you. Thank you. So, we were talking about some other things.  I think you’ve bought things from me in the past and I’ve done things with you in the past.

Heather: Oh yeah.

Ellen: And Heather just hired me as a consultant…

Heather: That’s right.

Ellen: … for her next project. And we got talking about a lot of things

Heather: (Laugh)

Ellen:  But there was something, yeah.

[04:14] Heather: The main thing you were really impressed with, they’re like, “Oh, we should talk about this,” is the fact that I had someone come up… we were talking about it, how someone reached out to me and like just recently I just got signed with a New York Times, bestselling publisher who…and that’s why I reached out to you because I realized that yeah, I’ve  published a book, but I’ve never been down this road. When you go with the new times with selling publisher, it’s another road, you know?

Ellen: Right.

Heather: And so, I was like,” I really need to have a consultant, someone on my side that through the process, I can be like, is that true? If I, all of a sudden become an actress and I get nominated, I’m going to the Academy Awards, but I want to have someone on my side, not just trust. And when you go down that process, once you want to have someone who’s like in your back pocket and is really consulting you. And so, we talked about that and how someone said, “How did you get signed?” And I was kind of taken back by this person. And I pretty much, I barked at them a little of, like, “You just wrote your first ebook, like in one weekend and you want me just to, ‘Oh, here’s my contacts.’” I’ve been here twenty years of this particular person with the publisher. The owner, the publisher, I’ve had a relationship with him for ten years.

[05:24] Ellen: Right. I’ve had one for sixteen, yeah.

Heather: Yeah. Like, just because I have a relationship with the person doesn’t mean, he’s going to say yes. And then, I actually got rejected by them

Ellen: But it helps.

Heather: . Yeah. It definitely helps to have an email conversation, but

[05:38] Ellen: That was important. That’s one of the things I wanted you to share. Yeah. That you’d gotten rejected by him three times and you did not give up.

Heather: Did not give up. And I was really willing to listen to what they were saying and to shift because in that like the first time I got what I call “Your denied and here’s why,”  it was not exactly nice. Let’s just say that.

Ellen: Oh.

Heather:  it was like, “Oh, that hurts, really?” And at first, I was mad and then I’m like, “Let me look at that. Let me look at how is it that they’re getting that perception?” So, there must be something I’m putting out there that they’re getting that perception. So. they’re saying no to me, let me take a look at that. And so, for three months I revamped the book. I actually revamped a lot of my branding. I revamped a lot of things based on that feedback, because I thought to myself, “Well, what’s more important to me to take a stance “Well, that’s just me.”  Or,  do I want to win the Super Bowl?

It’s like someone (saying), “I want to win the super bowl, but I’m not willing to get on the field in the outfit.” It’s like, you know what? Get over the outfit. Okay? Okay? No, you’re not allowed to take a knew, can’t take a knee, whatever. Do you want the Super Bowl or not? So, there’s some times when you’re playing the game of something that big, which to me, my  Super Bowl is the  York Times , that’s my Super Bowl. But, yes, I’m not compromising who I am, but sometimes I’m like, “Well, I’d prefer not, but no big deal,  I’m willing to do things that need to happen. So, I really looked at it and I revamped a bunch of stuff. I reengaged and then,  I got like a, “Eh. ” No, but  an “Eh”.

Ellen: it’s getting better. It’s getting better.

[07:23] Heather: Okay. What’s that? And then I’ve submitted my last one and they were going to give me a final no, I heard a third through the grapevine. They told me why;  they told me specifically;  and within hours I killed all this stuff, send it back within like hours and said, “Oh, here’s this other version.” And they said, “Oh, okay, well then we’ll submit it again.” Submitted again a week and a half later and I got a yes. But I had to be willing to just let go of “This  has to be my voice.”

Ellen:  And a lot of creative people are alike that; they do not want to give an inch.

[8:12] Heather: They don’t want to give it. Look, so the one thing that the end, what they wanted me to change, I heard they heard, they said, they thought that my book had cussing in it because I had words like “badass” “asshole” maybe, and “sexy” stuff like that. If I used the word “f”   we had the asterisks.

Ellen: Yeah, yeah.

Heather: But just the fact that I said that… they were like a no, but they didn’t tell me no, they were just going to flat out “no” me,

Ellen: Which is too bad.

Heather: It’s too bad.

Ellen: Yeah. If you like the book. Why wouldn’t you just say, “Can you take this out?”

Heather:  Right. So, I heard that through the grapevine, I cleaned it up and because someone was like, “Well, why are you doing that? That’s, your expression”. I go, “I could still get my point across without saying badass. Okay.?” You know what I mean? So, it’s fine. I get it. Do I really want the New York Times bestselling publisher? Or,  do I want to just hang onto this word called “F” for badass?

Ellen: Right.

[9:05] Heather:  I’ll let it go. I’ll revamp the sentence. So, I revamped it, didn’t take away anything from the essence of the stories or anything like that, resubmitted it within twenty-four hours. And yeah, because a part of me, someone said, I said, “Well,” I said, “Well, Gary V has word F and I have a book right here that has the word, the subtle art of not giving it a fuck.” And they go, “Yeah, well, this publisher doesn’t want to deal with that. So, what do you want to do?”

Ellen: Yeah.

Heather: And I thought, “Well…

Ellen:  I’ve heard that about him.

Heather: And I thought, “Well, do I want to play the game?” The person who said that to me, it was great, great coaching. They said, “When you get as big as Gary V,  you can go to Harper Collins and use the word Fuck. You know what I mean?

Ellen: Yeah.

[9:47] Heather:  Get that big first. Then you’ll play. It’s good advice. You know, it’s good advice. At this point, (inaudible) can do whatever she wants, Gary V can do whatever he wants, Kim Kardashian can do whatever the heck she wants,  Cardi B can say whatever the heck she wants. Cause they’re at that point where they have their following and it doesn’t really matter, you know? So, I was like, “You’re not there.”

Ellen:  Right. The company needs them more than they need the company.

Heather: Exactly.

Ellen: Yeah.

Heather: “You’re not there yet. You’re not there yet.” So,  until you win the prize, play the game a little; what’s the big deal, you know?

[10:19] Ellen: Yeah. And I wanted to say that, I think that’s a thing of, especially newbies because  I remember when I go back to my songwriting and I think of how we were in the beginning and I remember feeling that way. It’s like, “No, we don’t want to change it.” But I had this song and we kept getting the same feedback over and over that there was one word they wanted taken out. And so, it was like, well, when you get the same one over and over and over, then you’ve got to pay attention. If somebody goes, “Well,” and they want to start rewriting the whole thing, then it’s going to change the essence. It’s like, “No, this is what it is.”

Heather: Right.

[10:55] Ellen:  But if it’s a word (or concept) and it keeps coming up over and over, then you have a problem within the industry.

Heather: Right. Right. And so, I really wanted this publisher and there’s reasons for that. And so, I was just willing to change. So now, I’m in the process of the process and it’s a whole another process it’s literally going from Peewee football to Super Bowl. It’s just a different conversation. It’s a different level of game. You can play football your whole life and the moment you go from college football to the NFL, it’s another game. It’s just another game. It’s a whole other world. And I have to think that way. That’s why I’ve reached out to you. Like, “Okay, I’m in another world here. And I want to make sure I have someone on my team that’s like ‘This is how you need to navigate a little bit here’” because I really want to win the Super Bowl. My Super Bowl is the New York Times bestselling author.  I say it every day. I have it visualized right here with my book, with the New York Times.

Ellen: And I have no doubt that you will.

[11:52] Heather: Thank you. Well, thank you. That’s, that’s my Super Bowl, and so someone said “Why are you doing that?” Cause I feel like I’ve been looking for this, to do this, for my whole life. Some people want,

Ellen: It’s like when somebody, when they say that to me, like, “Well, why do you want that?” Sometimes, I don’t even know- it’s what I want. I want chocolate ice cream today!

[12:13] Heather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, yeah. I’ve actually had some negative situations like that and I’m like, “It’s just what I want.”

Ellen:  Right.

Heather: “Well, would you be happy with…”  I’m like, “Why are you making me settle for less? Why, why are you forcing me to even think about something less?”  Would I be happy with the Wall Street Journal? Absolutely. With the USA Today? Absolutely. I still want the ring. And honestly, one of my mentors slash I don’t ever say he’s a mentor until this moment, but in a way,  he is, is you’re going to laugh. It’s Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys. And the reason why is because, first of all, he’s in personal life, he’s probably a complete asshole, so I’ve heard, whatever. I don’t know. But the man, wants the ring; the guy will not give up. I swear, the moment the Dallas Cowboys gets another Super Bowl, cause he wasn’t the owner. The moment they get the ring. I swear to God, the guy’s going to pass out and die. Like he’s waiting. Yeah. Like “I’m not going to die until…

Ellen: “I get that ring.”

Heather:  He is obsessed. And you gotta love him for that. You’ve got to love him for that. It would feel like, “Well, they all have this view on him.”  I’m like, “Dude, the guy doesn’t need anything. He doesn’t want for anything. He’s a multimillionaire, he’s an empire builder. Why does he want the ring? Cause he just wants the ring.

Ellen: Right. And sometimes it’s because they have all those other things. It’s like the icing on the cake and it’s legacy too.

[13:51] Heather: It’s legacy. It’s for me, what I visualize is I did this exercise, actually before the pandemic, is I sat down and said, “Okay, if I’m sitting in Florida,” I don’t know why South Florida in a nursing home in my eighties, “What would I like to say that I’ve done?” And it was like a New York Times bestseller was one of the things on that list. And I was like, “Okay, well,” so I started this process of thinking about it, creating it nine months ago, ten months ago.

Ellen: Which is what you should do.

Heather: Yeah., So it’s been a process and I’m still in the process. Now that I just got the signature doesn’t mean anything. Now, I already got all these deadlines and dates and this and that coming on and book deadlines, and it’s overwhelming. It’s definitely a different game, but I wouldn’t have it any other way. That’s what I’m playing for, and you got to shoot for the stars. And the one thing we’ve talking about that you thought it was interesting was like awards.

Ellen: Yeah. I was going to bring that up next. Yeah, yeah.

Heather: Yeah. A hundred percent. You hit a hundred percent of what you don’t swing for. And I applied.

Ellen:  Michael Jordan.

[15:04] Heather: Yeah. I applied for the Stevie Award and I had someone dear to me, who I asked for acknowledgment that I won. He goes, “Well, I don’t really like pay to play stuff.” And I was like, “What?” And he’s like, “Well, pay to play.” I go, “Let me ask you a question. When you’re a bodybuilder,” he’s a bodybuilder or doing some stuff like that. I said, “You, when you get on stage…”

Yeah. He goes, “Yeah, I go, have you worked your ass off for weeks?”

“ Yeah”

“ Okay. Do you know that when you get to the event, you have to pay the event promoter to get into the door?”

He goes, “Yeah.”

“ Didn’t you have to pay the NPC a fee to be able to be in the event to be in the door.”

“ Yeah.”

“ Okay. And then, you’d get on stage, and then they would  judge you?”

“Yeah”

“It’s the same damn thing. Did I pay the organization for the opportunity to apply, to be judged?”

“ Yeah”

And I got judged by twenty-five people and I was up against about 2,400 people. So, I hear,  and I won, but I was judged. I gave them money to judge me. If you’re an Academy Award winner, you don’t think you’d be right with your fees with the Academy?

[16:13] If you’re in politics, I promise you you’re giving money to the Democratic or Republican party. You have to pay along the way to be on the ticket. It’s not a free thing.

Ellen: Oh, absolutely. I won the grand prize in the Music City Song Festival many years ago and yeah, there an entry fee, and then they use the entry fees to pay the winners.

Heather: Yeah. And, and so I was really pissed at him and I said, “There’s no such thing of just walking down the street and someone hands you an award, even Super Bowl, you gotta pay, you gotta pay to get in one…

Ellen: Yeah One of the most iconic examples of that was the English Patient. Christen and I went to the theater and I sat there and I turned, I looked at him and I go, “Is this boring or  is this me?” He goes, “Oh, it’s just awful.”

[17:00]: We couldn’t wait for it to be over. And it wins the Academy Award. Why? Well, it turned out they did a whole campaign. They campaigned to win. And they did, Politics has another perfect example where when you see the person, a lot of times, with the most money wins. it’s unfortunate.

Heather: Yeah, it’s unfortunate. But even as a politician, no matter what side you’re on, let’s say,  mayor races, you still have to pay your fee to the party…

Ellen: Yeah, to be in the race.

Heather:  To be in the city on the ballot. Like you’ve got to pay every step of the way through the whole process to be able to be judged, okay? . And then,  you have the market, right? So even with my publisher, there’s a conversation around all that.

[17:45]: And then, I have to pay to market the hell. It’s like, I’ve got to write the book and people are just going to come towards me. I’m going to have to do some paid advertising.

Ellen: Right

Heather: I’m going to have to get out there and either guerilla advertising, which has paid for my time or pay Facebook to do an ad or whatever, like I’m still going to have to pay…

Ellen: Or, both.

Heather: Right. Or,  both to get those eyeballs. So, I think and that’s one thing I think people have a real mess of view around awards on is they think they’re going to do a great job; like, because they’re taught this in school:  just do a great job and you’re rewarded. No, that’s not… even in corporate politics.

[18:19] Ellen: Yeah,” and I was pissed when I realized that because that’s the way I was brought up., My parents were like, just get good grades and everything’s going to work out.” Then I grew up and it’s like,

No.

Heather: No,  that’s not true. Right. Right. Yeah. And that’s what people say in corporate America. Like here’s my lesson from corporate America. I did the same thing. You did just do a good job and you’ll… right. So,  I was in corporate America. I was in sales. I was super young. The average person was forty, plus I was like twenty-two. So, I was up against them and I didn’t play politics. I didn’t know how to do that. No one taught me that. So, I just did this and just busted my butt. I thought, “Well do well, they reward you. Now I ended up being number one in the entire country of 10,000 reps. So, I beat every guy. I beat all the guys in my office and I was twenty years younger, and I’d beat every guy in all of Texas.

And I was this twenty-two-year-old and everyone threw me aside. So, when I won, I thought, “Oh, I’m going to be popular with the peeps,  one of the guys. Oh no, no, in fact, it was the opposite. I was told I didn’t deserve it. I was told I was an idiot. I was told… and it’s the numbers. Like I couldn’t lie about the numbers, it’s like a scoreboard,  and I was ostracized. And that’s when I learned someone goes, “You didn’t play the corporate game.” And I’m like, “What game is that? What’s that mean?” And I don’t work well in the corporate world, so I’m out of that game, but even in our world, there’s still relationships.

[19:48] Ellen: Yeah, absolutely. There’s still a game. And I want to say something about the pay to play because I know there’s a big stigma about that. Like speaking on stages, God forbid you have to pay to get in.  But I’ll tell you one of the things that was eye-opening for me, and honestly not that long ago was being in an event that I paid for and I ended up getting so far, I’ve gotten three clients out of it and I wasn’t even a speaker. I was just in a breakout room saying what I did, but as it turned out, the person who was in my niche was overwhelmed because she got so much attention and didn’t get back to people and people were getting frustrated, so they started coming to me and then I started getting, and then referrals and everything.

And Suzanne Evans is big on that. She’s big on, it’s like, “Hey, pay to play.” You’ve got to see what gets you in the door. And she told a story about how she paid $50,000 for the opportunity to be at something. And all these other people had paid that and they were getting up on stage and they weren’t making any sales and she was freaking out and she just said, “I have to do this,”  and she made it work. And she ended up over time from that $50,000 making over $2 million.

Heather: Good for her. Yeah. I think that, I come from the speaking world and there is a lot of pay to play or you don’t pay it all, you get nothing, you have to make your money. And I always laugh when I see people saying, “Get paid to speak where you get paid speaking fees. I’m like, “Good luck with that.” Because, there’s obviously the people that have big, big, big, big, but the end of the day until you’re like the Gary, V’s,  honestly your pay…

Ellen: They’re not going to pay you.

[21:37] Heather: I remember Sean’s Affiliate Summit saying to me, I don’t know where we were with some private. He goes,” I remember when I paid Gary V $2,500 to come and speak or like under two grand, like really small number. I called him and he said he would do it for some ridiculous, low number. And we had him speak at a breakout room one year (inaudible). I don’t even know. And he goes, “Yeah. I mean, because Gary was not trying to make a high number. He was just trying to get in the door.”

Ellen: Right.

Heather: Which was smart. So, even Gary V who, whatever number he’s at now, you just have to not be so pretentious.

Ellen: Yeah. Yeah. You do what you gotta do.

Heather: Right.

[22:17] Ellen: And you build your resume as you go,  and every time you add another notch…

Heather: Like that guy calling me or a guy texting me, this person who’s brand new saying to me, “Yeah, how’d you get that New York times publisher contracts. Can you give me his name?” “No.”Like he just got started yesterday. You just wrote your ebook. No, let me know when you have a platform, and an audience, and a business that you’ve created this. Then I can say, “Yes, here are some amazing people and contacts that I’ve created over the last twenty years.”

[22:52] Ellen:  Well, I’ve got to tell you there’s so much more, I want to ask you about how you made the million dollars doing these things, but we’re going to have to do that on another podcast.

Heather: No worries. Well, thanks for having me.

Ellen: Wait, wait, wait, I’m not through. Okay. One more question. Do you have any final tips for people?

Heather: Yeah. I’ll go back to the awards thing,  apply. When you see something come up for an award or an application apply, apply, you know, TEDx,  whatever. There’s all kinds of awards and things going on that people are constantly putting out and people don’t apply.

[23:32]: I was in fact, the person that really put this in my brain was the guy that you and I both know. I don’t want to say who it is  right now. But in November I was in Carnegie Hall, at an event, meeting Martha Stewart, meeting Ice Tea, Coco and Michael Gerber, at this private event. And he had given out, he was giving out these like really big, like Marketer of the Year awards. And he said, who won. And some people didn’t win anything or some awards went empty. He goes, “You know why these awards went empty? Because no one applied,” no one applied. He goes, “Don’t ever be that person, apply. You don’t know what’s going to happen.” You don’t know what’s going to happen. And when I applied for the Stevie Awards, Most Innovative Woman of the Year, Social Media,

I  was nominated first. I thought to myself,” I’m never going to get that” There are others better than me but they didn’t apply. I’m sure there’s better people out there, but they didn’t apply. They’re not putting in the work. I spent three days on my application. They had to send all kinds of pictures and images and this and that. And the documentation was like two pages. So yeah, and I read all the twenty-five judges’ comments, and some were glowing and some were not so glowing. But I’m proud of myself that I went through that entire application process, that I spent the time, I spent the energy, and then I allowed people to judge me.

Ellen: Yeah.

Heather: And if I could give anybody advice, place yourself in positions to allow people to judge you. And I know we’re talking in the middle of our current political craziness, but no matter what side you’re on or whatever, the people that are on the ticket, the thing I can give all them credit for is it they’re putting themselves on the line to let people judge them.

[25:32] Ellen: Okay. So, I got to tell you something about this. So, I applied to be in a music contest again, after twenty-five years.

Heather: (Clapping)

Ellen: I’ve been out of the business for years and it occurred to me last year that that was not okay. And what the hell was I doing? And how did I let twenty-five years go by? And so…

Heather: Cool.

Ellen: Yeah, and I had won grand prize before, as I said, in a different one, but, in those days,  you couldn’t make much money from them. I think I made a thousand dollars, winning, beating out 30,000 people. But this time, the grand prize is $50,000. And not only that, but you could end up with a recording contract with a major artist. And so, I just want to say, it’s never too late, number one, no matter what’s happened in between,  and just don’t let yourself do what I did. I just got off on the other path, which was, coaching and everything. And I just kind of lost my way with the music, but it definitely took courage to do that. I don’t know what they’re going to say. There’s part of me thinks, yeah, I should win.

Obviously, I wouldn’t have, have entered if I didn’t think I should win. And I wanted the song to be heard because it’s a song that needs to be heard. It’s really a classic song., I’ve gotten that kind of feedback on it,  But, nonetheless, twenty-five years later, and I did it. So, I did it, you can do it,  Heather’s doing it, just do it.

[27:04] Heather: That’s right. And I want to end with this story, which I was talking to a friend of mine who was at my house; he’s a young guy. And I said, “What do you always want to do when you grow up?” kind of thing. (inaudible) He said, “I always wanted to go to the moon. I always saw myself as an astronaut.”  And I said, “Well, that’s cool. Why that he went into that. And he goes, “Last year I think it was, I think it was Elon Musk or Space X put out something for applicants to apply, to go to the moon.” And I thought, “Oh, that’s badass. Did you apply? “ He goes, “No, I didn’t apply.” I mean, their (inaudible) was is probably all bullshit anyway.”  He just all this negative and I go, “You don’t.” He goes, “Well, they didn’t do it.”

Heather: It goes, “So what? When they do, which they will, they’re going to go back to that list.” He goes, “I’ve never thought about that.” I go, “Why would you not at least throw your hat in? Now you’re at least on a list of what they’re doing. At least you’re on the list of like, what the cool stuff’s happening with that. Like, why not be on the cutting edge of that?” And he’s like,” I  never thought about that.” I go, “You hit a hundred percent of the opportunities you don’t even hit, try, so why not? Why not?” I became Miss Texas and that was totally random. And I went and it was very, very, very challenging. People make fun of me in our industry all the time for it. But it was one of the most challenging things I’ve ever had to do because there’s makeup, you had to live in for three days and your hair does not move for three days.

[28:26]: I had to, I had to sleep standing up, heels that were that big, and dresses that were tight, and, all kinds of stuff, and I’m actually really proud of my crown. You can see it right there. I actually won…

Ellen: Yes.

Heather: There are all my awards right there. I want a media  award.  That one was just given to me. I didn’t know about that. That’s my VIP Speaker Award,  and that’s my crown. And then, that’s me and… I don’t have my Stevie yet. It hasn’t come yet.

[28:53]: Okay. Well, thank you so much, Heather. This is great. Like I said, I would love to do this again and cover some other things, but that’s it for today to get the transcript, go to https://booksbusiness abundance.com/podcast. You’re also welcome to join our Facebook group. The link is at the bottom of the podcast page. And in the Facebook group, you’ll get first notice of new podcasts, the opportunity to ask questions of guests if you have any, network, plus take advantage of marketing opportunities, occasional book giveaways, and that link is also https://booksopendoors.com/podcast. And while you’re there, be sure to grab a copy of Book Planning Secrets, A Simple 4-Step Guide to Writing a Bestseller. So, if you’re writing your own book or you’ve been writing books and you just want to write them faster and easier, be sure to pick that up till next time. That’s it. Bye-bye.

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