In this episode, Chuck Bartok shares his book-marketing strategy for selling books from your website, doubling your Amazon profits per sale, and how he gets free, viral traffic to grow his list, plus a powerful strategy one of his clients uses to build relationships and grow her Facebook reach that will work for anyone!
To reach Chuck: www.ChuckBartok.com
To reach Chuck’s co-writer: www.Facebook.com/jamesstrausswriter
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3 Key Points
Give a chapter away as you get them done on your website.
Ask for the sale.
Take chances, try new things.
Ellen: Hi everybody, and welcome to Episode 39 today my guest is checked bar talk check is a 50-year entrepreneur.
He spends most of his time now working with others, helping them enjoy personal and financial success. He was privileged to be introduced to Napoleon Hill and Charles Haanel in the 1960 at UCR and their books spelled out such as simple entrepreneurial path to follow that he adopted the principles of Napoleon Hill, Charles Haanel and Orison Swett Marden along with proverbs into his definite, is that right, is definite major purpose, which has not changed in 60 years.
He lives in autonomous life and helps others and he’s been blessed to share his life with five children, three surviving grandchildren and so far, seven great-grandchildren as well as his gorgeous wife, Shirley. And he loves that. It gives him the opportunity to learn so much.
And I met Chuck through a writer’s group and I’ve just been so impressed with his expertise that I wanted to invite him to the call. So, welcome Chuck.
Well, thank you very much Ellen. I appreciate the opportunity to be here with you. And before we go much further, I want the audience to know that it is your writing and the way you form your questions and the tremendous help that you offer the literary world is attracted me to respond to you.
[2:26] Ellen: Well, what is it? Like attracts like, right? So, do you want to start by telling people what you do?
[2:37] Chuck: Well,
[2:38] Ellen: A little more
[2:39] Chuck: I get asked that question a lot. I’ll sum it up. I hope, I tend to get wordy. I’ll try to be concise. I have always enjoyed growing things. Which is one thing, one reason, that my life was directed to agriculture and husbandry, and I was inspired as I mentioned in 1960 when I went to the University of California at Riverside as a freshman. And I was in awe with all these brilliant people. The reason I chose that campus that were only 900 students, I hope my internet connection is okay. And 400 professors, basically a research school that then became a general campus.
[3:23] Ellen: Wow
[3:28] Chuck: I chose it because I knew I could surround myself with brilliant people because I wanted to be considered to somebody, at least myself, brilliant. So, what happened was I applied the basics of the three books you mentioned and that led to other books as we went along.
So, as I got involved in agriculture, I found out that one does not need to be a big grower to make decent money if you develop a market for the product that you grow. That was the beginning of marketing, although I had marketed heavily in high school. So, I grew things at the same time I was growing businesses. And that became kind of an affection is to grow a business. And that led to several different ventures over the years. My love of agriculture stayed in the background, my kids basically grew up on a 20-acre truck farm.
They learned at an early age how to get things done, which set them up for their own personal lives that I believe are successful in their definitions. Okay?
So, I hired a young man. I was involved in a business we won’t discuss too in-depth.
[4:51]: It was 1970. I met a young man who just was discharged from the Marine Corps, and we were at an exchange club meeting; he fascinated me. I had the opportunity to bring him into my team, and he became the top dog if you want to put it that way. And our relationship, of course, 50 years now. His talent is getting the job done. His talent is planning well. But more importantly, I believe he’s a gifted writer. Okay? And that’s my prejudice.
So, I knew over the period of, he told me a story as we walked the beach in San Clemente at the foot of the Western White House. He told me his experiences in Vietnam, and I dropped my jaw. I said, “This has to be recorded.” So, at that time, he wrote a heavy manuscript but still in an outline form, and we both knew that there would be no market for this because of the circumstances in our country at that time.
[6:01]: Fast forward, forty-five years later, we both felt it was time to put that 30-day experience on paper and publish.
[6:12] Ellen: Wow.
[6:13] Chuck: But, in the meantime, because of what happened in lives. He also wrote stories based on his life experiences, and everything that he writes about is actually life experienced, except it’s written as fiction. I think you can appreciate why things that maybe you don’t want to be fully detailed, especially in the condition of the world.
So, okay. He was approached by a publisher. In fact, one of his books was published traditionally. And that was a ridiculous venture, to say the least.
[6:56] Chuck: So, we decided to self-publish, but my side of the coin was to develop the audience. So, way before the books were published, I spent time daily building an audience. We put up an author website, which the first year had 1.2 million pages read because we effectively used social media to drive people from social media to the website.
And we encouraged, we knew who our audience was, and we encouraged engagement. There’re over 22,000 comments on the website today, the over 20 to 23,000 and almost all of them are personally answered also.
[7:47] Ellen: So, who does that? Do you answer them or do you have somebody who does that?
Chuck: No, the two of us.
Ellen: Oh, un-huh.
Chuck: I mean, if they’re very personal to him, you know, but if they’re more generic.
[7:58] Chuck: it’s just because this is a terrible thing to say publicly. We are very simpatico; our, my, our mindsets are very close. I will never claim to be him. And he obviously would never claim to be me, because he wouldn’t want that onus. So, yeah, to be honest with you on the Facebook page, many times it’s me on the Facebook page, and it’s also him.
[8:27] Ellen: Well, how do you get them from there to your website?
Chuck: Because we both fell in love with Alexander Dumas when we were young people. I was intrigued how he became a well-known author. Nobody wanted him, especially when he did The Count of Monte Cristo. So, what he did was he found a newspaper that would publish his chapters on a regular basis and he developed a huge readership.
By the way, Charles Haanel did the same thing. I’ll go get back to that a hundred years later. So finally, when the book was finished, “publishers” saw that he had a huge audience and he had to beat them away to he got to pick and choose who was going to publish his book, The Count of Monte Cristo in book form. So, what we’ve done is every piece of work is published on the website, chapter by chapter for you to read.
[09:31]: So, social media, Twitter, Facebook, and other social media venues, when a new chapter is posted, we mentioned it on social media, and people immediately leave there, and go to the website, and read.
[9:49] Ellen: So, do they have to opt in to do that or it’s just…
Chuck: No, no, no, no, no, no.
Chuck: We don’t believe in any of that subterfuge.
[9:57] Chuck: However, our mailing list is approaching 10,000 and, of course, they have an opportunity to opt into an update email in case they miss social media. Okay? So yes, there’s… and we have an 85% open rate on the emails and an over 80% click through to the link that’s mentioned in the email. Now what happens on Facebook, and Facebook calls once in a while and asks why. How that works is, what do they call it? Organic reach on Facebook. You’ve heard of that word?
[10:41] Chuck: … is over 80% of the 15,000 people that we have “like” the page; that’s organic reach. And how we did that is we asked our fans to share.
So, on a given post you’ll find 200-to-300 people share that post, which broadens the virility of that post and expands it out much further than any one person can reach.
[11:08] Ellen: Right. So, can anybody get into your group?
Chuck: Yeah. And we have some…no, the page. Okay?.
Ellen: Oh, the page.
[11:17] Chuck: We have two groups. I personally am not a fan of groups as much as I am the page. That’s a personal thing.
Ellen: Okay. Well, where’s the page? Where can people find the page
Chuck: On Facebook?
Ellen: Okay, good to know.
[11:41] Chuck: Yup. Now we do have two groups. One of them called Strauss’ Army. And that was created because, after the first year, everybody wanted to meet the authors. So, we had a rendezvous in Kansas where people travel from around the United States to camp out in the county park in Kansas and celebrate the 4th of July. And so, somebody said, “Well, we’re an army, you know, these are reader things. And that group, has an interesting discussion level. And then, the other one, there is a group called James Strauss Group. You’ll see a lot of duplications, but you will see different characters, different fans of each of the groups, but they’re all really directed from the page.
[12:31]: So, that’s what we basically do. And, of course, everybody told me when I got involved on Facebook and social media in this direction that, “Well, you can’t do that. You can’t have your books on the, on the website that people can read for free cause you will never sell any.” Well, guess what? When you let people know you’re ready to publish, they’re lining up to buy it because here’s what people don’t realize. It’s a little more difficult to read chapter to chapter on a website than it is in an ebook or the book in hand.
[13:13] Ellen: That’s interesting because I did that with one of my books, but I don’t think I did it the way you did it because I don’t remember selling a ton of books from my website from there.
Chuck: But did you ask anybody?
Ellen: No, I just put it on Amazon (and launched it to #1).
Chuck: Okay. That comes to another point since you’re, I think you’d get the fact now that I enjoy selling.
[13:35] Ellen: Yeah, yeah.
Chuck: I peddled vegetables all over California. I’ve pedaled all my life livestock. I’ve always learned that there’s a certain time when you have to ask that person to open their wallet and buy now.
Ellen: Yes, yes.
[13:55] Chuck: Now it’s not pleading, but nobody has ever seemed to object to being asked to buy something that they’re already interested in.
Ellen: True. Yeah.
[14:11] Chuck: Here’s the secret. The secret of sales is nothing more than a person who knows how to ask the right questions to the right people and has a keenly-developed ability to listen. You always let the other person talk. That’s why we encourage comments. Okay? You take that which you listened to and design a solution to their problem. You present the problem to them and if it’s done properly if you can’t close 80%, you’ve done something wrong. Contrary to what all these gurus and puff dragons and, you know, all these hot shots talk about and you don’t need a lot of gimmickry. We don’t give anything away on the website. I mean, you know what I’m trying to say. The opt-in offers you nothing. I mean, if you want to opt in, fine. If you don’t want to opt in, fine too. We don’t care.
Ellen: Wow, that’s definitely contrarian.
[15:24] Chuck: Yeah, because well, giving things away. Now I’m going to qualify this: to entice somebody to do something is contrary to developing a solid relationship. and on the Internet, we have generations of people who will grab everything free but not go any further because they feel they’re entitled.
[15:49] Ellen: Right. Okay. Yeah. Well I, that’s a real pet peeve of mine because I come from the music business.
Chuck: Right, and you know what I’m talking about.
Both Jim and I were involved in the music business. We managed a few talents back in the day…
Ellen laughed (because she didn’t know this before the interview, and it happens so often it’s funny.)
Chuck: Here’s the other thing.
Chuck: Guess who does get the perks, the discounts, and the freebies?
[16:14] Chuck: Readers and subscribers and buyers. We have lists of buyers; people who have bought four or five times. If I’m going to give anything away, I’m going to give it to our solid fan club.
Now look, I’m going to use another example. Let’s forget the book market. Let’s talk about eight manufactured products,. A very close friend of mine and who we’ve had a 30-year relationship when all this evolved, and I had my heart attack in 2004 and got online, and started applying the same principles that I’ve used, applying them online. We started putting his store online, you know, you could buy his product where before it was sold through stores, which it still is.
Now, we’re sitting around one day, his wife is a banker, very brilliant young lady. And I said, “I believe that everybody who orders something from you on this new website should get something more in the box other than what they’ve purchased.” And he says, “Well, that sounds good.” And she says, “Ain’t no way, Jose.” I said, “Well, I’ll tell you what Michelle, let’s put in a gift to every order, regardless of the size, the same gift.
[17:34]: And we’re going to try this for ninety days. And if you do not see a dramatic impact, I’ll pick up the total cost.” I was a consultant for them. What he did was he chose a very high-quality piece of clothing that only had his logo on the back with his website. Okay? And so, when you bought an item on his website, the box arrived, and you got the beautiful thing that you ordered. But wow, here’s this thing in there. Right? And people wore that because it was an attractive piece of clothing.
[18:09] The best example of this was a person who got their gift, went to the horse show, wore that shirt, and from that horse show about nineteen, new customers bought something the next day.
[18:28] Ellen: So, it just had the logo, and they could then go look it up or it had the website on it, or what?
Chuck: Here’s what happened. It had the website on it. Mary wore the shirt and everybody says, “Where did you get that wild shirt? Well, read the back.”
[18:45]: And she said, “What do you mean?” “Well, I bought something and I got the shirt.” Now, the shirts are not for sale. Do you understand?
[18:53] Chuck: They only go to people who bought something. Okay. Same thing to the book business. You take care of your book-buying customers. Obviously, you can’t do that on Amazon because you don’t know who the heck they are.
Ellen: Right, right.
[19:07] Chuck: That’s why the focus, energy and time goes into driving people to your website to buy from you directly. Number one, your profit margin is twice as large as it is from Amazon, and you have money in your account every day. I think it would be, can’t be a bad deal.
Ellen: Yeah. I was going to say something but I forgot what I was going to say.
[19:33]: Chuck: I’ll tell you one of the objections I heard on the very site that you’re talking about on Facebook where we met. Yeah. Yeah. “I don’t have time for that.” Okay. Well, that’s cool. You don’t have time to take care of your own business. Number two is, “I can’t be bothered.” You know, somebody did forget…I can’t be bothered because these are autograph books, personally autograph because the people that buy them tell us what they want us to say.
And guess what happens then? Somebody buys, grandpa buys seven of these books, and he sends the instructions for each one of them to be personalized to the grandkids. Grandpa’s name is Mitch.
Ellen: Yeah, that’s nice.
[20:16] Chuck: How long does that really take? If you had that job to do right now, you know, I said I want you to autograph seven books, here’s a sentence for each one. How long would it really take you?
[20:30]: Ellen: Yeah, it doesn’t take long. It’s just getting out of the house and going to the post office.
[20:33] Chuck: No, no, no. I don’t know where you live, but where I live, and I always lived out in the country, so our postman, and I did a lot of…
Ellen: Oh, he’ll pick them up?
[20:45] Chuck: We used to ship boxes of oranges from our house. And the postman that came by, he just picks up the boxes of oranges.
Ellen: Oh, nice.
Chuck: and then leave the empty boxes because we use the flat-rate boxes. So, really, we don’t have to drive. So really we don’t have to…
Ellen: Oh, that’s good.
Chuck: I’m all these miles out of town. See, I didn’t want to drive to the post office every day.
[21:10] Chuck: And the beautiful thing today with a computer, this is something we didn’t have thirty years ago, all your labels can be printed. People pay PayPal; you push the button on PayPal; the labels printed, and it’s paid for. You’ve paid for the postage, and you slap the label on it and go out the door.
[21:26] Ellen: You can do that in PayPal?
Chuck: Yes, always had been able to.
Ellen: I did not know that.
Ellen: Do you have a video on how to do it somewhere?
Chuck: No, but PayPal does.
Ellen: How’d they do? Okay. Okay. Oh, that’s good.
[21:40] Chuck: I’d like to share something right now. I’m not endorsing PayPal and you know, I’m not an affiliate; they’re not taking care of me financially except positive money in the account every day. Yeah.
Their phone service is phenomenal.
Ellen: Yeah, it is.
Chuck: And I have learned everything about PayPal, talking to a human being who’s on the West Coast. I love it.
[22:08] Chuck: And that’s the kind of people I do business with. Yeah. It’s like my email marketing company who I’ve been with for seventeen years. Well, how many years? 2004 to sixteen years. I didn’t know anything about that. I’m seventy-six-years-old. I didn’t grow up in this world, you see.
Ellen: Yeah. I hope people listen to that. You’re seventy-six years old. When I hear people say, “Oh, I’m too old. I can’t do this.”
[22:30] Chuck: Yeah. I’m going to share another story with you after that. Remind me about the age. Anyway, when I wanted to, you know, everybody said, “You’ve got to have this email thing.” Okay? So, I called them and these young people living in Pennsylvania, every time I call, have walked me through everything. and they are so innovative. Every time they come up with a new thing, I listened to the webinar, and it’s all in geek-speak to me. So, then I call directly to the company and very slowly a young person will work with this old man explaining to him in simple language how it works.
[23:10] Ellen: Yeah. I’m at the point where I will not “like” buy products and stuff if there’s not some way for me to get help.
Chuck: … and somebody that understands your language.
Ellen: Right, right.
Chuck: because multi-lingual, I don’t care to think I need to switch it around.
Ellen: Right. But, if you’re not techie. I mean that’s so important.
Chuck: Right, right. If somebody says, “Well, I looked at that email service and it’s more expensive than what I have. Okay, well cost and expense are two different words,.
[23:43] Chuck: Businesses have expenses. Question is what is the return of investment on that?
Ellen: Right, and what’s it costing you not to do it?
[23:49] Chuck: That’s right. That’s right. You mentioned age, well, I took my talk show, which has been on since 2006 or 2007, which was business-oriented, how to start a business, how to grow a business and how to market. I had callers who around the world called in every week and you know they’re all recorded; it’s our podcast, which we just had the 457th episode. In the last couple of years has been predominantly the callers have been authors, newly published, and guess what? They’re old farts. No, I shouldn’t say. Okay, let me put it very clearly there. Almost everybody is over sixty.
[24:37] Ellen: Well, you know why?
Ellen: Well because first of all, I know like I wanted to write books and I was there, but it’s like I didn’t have enough experience.
I didn’t know what to write about.
[24:45] Chuck: It’s interesting that you brought that up because almost all of the books of the authors who attend our talk show are writing life experience.
Ellen: Yeah. And that doesn’t surprise me.
[24:59] Chuck: And then, they’re brilliant. I mean, one of them who has some excellent books, Rotund Roland by J.L. Callison is a treasure. It has to do with bullying. And, of course, it comes from life experience. But he finally decided because of having a great-granddaughter, like most of us do, he wrote a children’s book and these, and it was published in December using the same principles we just discussed.
[25:26] Chuck: He sold out the first three orders in first. What happened is the presale, he had to order another a hundred copies, and then he had to order another a hundred copies for December. But here’s the best part of it, he met his illustrator on the talk show.
Ellen: Ah, nice.
Chuck: It’s a collaborative effect, you see.
Chuck: And anyway, maybe older folks are more easily shareable. Maybe they’ve dropped their pretense.
[25:59] Ellen: They’re not trying to impress anybody. Right.
[26:03] Chuck: And everybody wants to chime in and help everybody, which let’s go back to the premise of social media… one young lady who contacted me through Facebook, she’d never written a book. She’s a widow. and to make a long story short, she found 151 letters her husband had written her from Vietnam.
Ellen: “Oh my God.”
[26:30] Chuck: She’s been widowed twenty-one years. And they had the most fabulous marriage in the world. What I got excited about was I read his letters, and I said, “This is the finest example of masculinity I’ve ever seen.” because this great big guy from Texas is writing from the heart.” They were eighteen years old for crying out loud. They just got married out of high school. But anyway, she has come into her own, and the Facebook page to her website. You can go to her website right now today and read all three of the first books. The fourth will be published very soon. Okay? But most people read the first two chapters and click the buy button. “I’m going to buy all three.”
Chuck: Okay? Because it’s easier to have the book.
Ellen: Right? That’s what I’m trying to say.
[27:22] Ellen: Yeah. I want to go back to what you were saying though about, you know, being lazy and not wanting to do it on Amazon and doing it from your website. You know, one thing that did occur to me for people who are lazy, but want some of that effect without going the whole nine yards, they could actually have it on Amazon, and then have a bonus in there, and then give the freebie for the people who opt in through through Amazon. Then they don’t have to worry about shipping them and all that if they don’t remember the whole nine yards.
Chuck: Right. They’re hybrids of this.
Ellen: Yeah, some would rather go for the convenience and not worry about that. (shipping books) So, it just depends on what your mindset is,
[27:58] Chuck: Right? I’m not saying everybody should do what we’re doing, but you know.
Ellen: Right, right.
Chuck: But, you asked me to share and..
Ellen: Yeah, no, absolutely.
Chuck: If Amazon pays a $4.78 royalty for book a, the book sold on the website is a netting after expenses about $9.60.
Chuck: So, that represents the sale of two books on Amazon. And I’m going to probably be burned at the stake for this.
[28:29] Chuck: Okay? Amazon, the only thing they care about is people coming to their website.
Ellen: Oh absolutely.
Chuck: Because they know that most people are going to buy something else. And that’s why I object to the book giveaway. Amazon is using that author’s creative talent to fatten their own wallet. And many of the people who go on these free book campaigns truly do not realize much of a return ultimate.
[28:55] Ellen: Well, I agree with you, if they don’t do it right, they don’t. But I’ll tell you why I love them. And the reason I love them is because so many people come to me, they don’t know how to market. They don’t have a tribe. They have nothing to start with, and we just make them free for just a couple of days. And what we do is we help them jumpstart, so that they do start building their tribe and start learning how to market and get the word out. And so, again, I think there’s room for everything, which is why I love doing this podcast.
And that’s why I love hearing other people’s perspectives in the way they do things. Because I think it depends on where you are in your business, what your strategy is, what you’re skills are. I think everything makes a difference. I don’t think it’s one size fits all.
[29:40] Chuck: No. If you’re happy with your results, whatever you’re doing is correct.
Chuck: If you’re unhappy with your results,
Ellen: Then do something else.
29.49 Chuck: Open your eyes, open your ears, listen to Ellen, and listen to her. I mean you and other people have some wonderful information to share based on experience. And there’s nothing wrong with trying. You know, farming is nothing but trying. You know, what variety of radish are you going to grow? Well, if you go to the.. oh, like we didn’t have internet then. But everybody always grew cherry bell when I started farming radishes, but I was only twenty-some years old and I kept, well, why? Why is that? Why is everybody growing? Cherry bell and I found out nobody really knew.
So, I met this plant breeder, a Hungarian immigrant. Of course, we obviously worked well together, and there was another radish variety that was actually better adapted to the climate and the soil conditions. So, I started planning this other radish. Everybody else was getting 2,500 dozen bunches to the acre, and this new variety was giving me 3,500 dozen bunches. It didn’t take a genius to figure out who was making more money.
30.57 Chuck: Guess what happened in two years? Everybody else in the neighborhood started growing that other, so we have to be willing to take a chance. We have to be willing to try new things.
Ellen: Absolutely. Well, this has been really great. Let me ask you, do you have any final tips before we go?
[31:13] Chuck: Well, always deliver what you promise. That’s an axiom and effectively use social media. Everybody says, “Well, I don’t need it,” but today we as a population and the age group of the population is such that there are so many people who were born and raised with it. You know what I basically say is that even old people set in their ways should learn some effective uses. Now, that’s what we talk about on our talk show. There’s no cost. Nobody ever pays anything, but ideas are shared. When I was going to say about,
[31:53] Ellen: Wait, wait, wait, what’s the name of the talk?
Chuck: Okay, you go to on Chuck.Bartok.com, my name ChuckBartok.com. Up in the navigation bar, there is a word that says “podcasts” and the top of that page is the most recent podcast and down below that page are several of the older ones. But if you want the complete history, you go back to talkshoe.com and there’s a link on that page. But every week, when we’re finished with Monday’s call, which is at [6:30] PM Eastern, you can talk via telephone or computer, very much like we’re doing on zoom. And by the way, it is video-compatible also. I’ve never used it because my people don’t want video.
[32:45] Ellen: Well, I asked you if you wanted to be on video.
Chuck: It’s that, you know, my wife would get so mad at me if I did that too. But, but anyway that ChuckBartok.com podcasts. Now what I also do is the podcast that really stand out in my mind, I then actually do a post, I edify every one of the callers. Their books are all featured on that page either to their website or to Amazon if they don’t have them on their website.
So, the other thing you said, leave a pearl of wisdom. The young lady from Texas that I mentioned, she spends 80% of her time on Facebook, edifying others and 20% of her time on Facebook edifying herself. And that seems to work for everybody. She actually spends most of her time sharing other authors’ stuff and 20% of the time talking about her stuff. And that’s why she has a huge following.
[33:49] Ellen: Well, let me ask you, is hers just about authoring or is it just more general?
Chuck: No, this is the young lady..
Ellen: Or, her profile.
Chuck: The letters and her page, her Facebook page and her personal profile are always talking about other authors.
Ellen: Ah, okay.
[34:09] Chuck: And let’s assume that she, obviously her wall, she sees the posts of her friends, that she engages with the most. You know how the algorithm works,.
Chuck: Okay. So, if she found out that Chuck Bartok gave a speech at some big event, she then shares that to her audience. But she doesn’t just share it. And that’s the other key. Never just share something. Always tell your followers why you are sharing. Don’t just hit the share button.
Chuck: Before you type words in, I know that may sound obvious to everybody.
Ellen: Yeah. No, a lot of people don’t. I see people do that all the time where they just hit send.
[34:56] Chuck: So, my first attitude is, “Well, you’re my friend, right Ellen? So, why do you think I should do this? Why do you think I should read this. Now If you said, “Hey everybody, I just came across this wonderful treatise on,” you know, I don’t know, whatever. I really think it’s worth your time and energy, and let me know what you think. You’re always giving them the opportunity comment, which is going to help your page algorithm and that’s the way we should share that. Just hit the share button.
Ellen: Right. Well, this has been really great. Thank you so much for sharing. I appreciate you, and I look forward to seeing you and communicating more in our little comments back and forth.
[35:56]: Chuck: Thank you very much Ellen, and I’m honored to be with you because I said it at the beginning, you have some really dynamite stuff to share with people, not just authors, but people in general who are trying to get something done, and I highly encourage people to follow you.
Ellen: Well, thank you. Yeah, I’ve been through the worst myself and I just try to, you know, that’s what I was saying to you before, like when you’ve been through it and you get older, you get wiser, you want to help other people to not have to go through everything you went.
Chuck: There you go. That’s how we raise children.
Ellen: Yeah, exactly.
Chuck: We still have to stub their toe.
Ellen: Exactly. Yeah. No, you can’t stop them from everything, but maybe you can stop them from some things, you know.
Chuck: Right. There you go.
Ellen: Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s it for today. Till next time. Bye-bye
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